Unraveling Procurement Problems: The State of Purchasing in Texas

Welcome to the secured podcast. I'm your host, Mike Matrenga. Here with my cohost, Mike Monson, we're coming to you from the ASAP sec security studios here in Houston, Texas. Today's episode, we're gonna talk about, purchasing in the state of Texas and purchasing in general. Kinda some of the the issues that we have come across, in procurement. So let's talk about procurement. Let's talk about RFPs. Let's talk about purchasing cooperatives. Let's talk about some of the the common issues that you see and let's talk about even, you know, do you feel like it's a fair process? Wow. I know that was a lot. It was a lot. So in my opinion, the procurement process, in Texas for government agencies, schools is completely screwed up. Like, it it's it's backwards. It's upside down. And there's there's no real way, to to to get a fair shake at anything that you're doing. Right? So if you start an RFP, right? Typically, there's a consultant or an engineer, some type of somebody who, you know, claims to be an expert or can put dots on paper, essentially. And inherently, these people have bias bias towards equipment, buy it to manufacturers, maybe even somebody personally There's a lot of bias that goes into this. Many times these engineers and architects consultants are using the same specifications over and over and over and over again. And and So we got this wash rinse repeat cycle. Over and over again. And what's what's frustrating about that is they're being paid a fee each and every time to meet the specific needs of the actual customer. Right? So I am x y z school district, and we want this, and we want these feature set and they literally just go in, grab off the shelf, and throw a specification at it, and hope that everything is in there because they wrote it twenty years ago, and haven't updated. And so we see things today where specifications still have analog cameras in it, right, and references to digital video recorders, and and how to run coaxial cable for cameras. We've been doing that, decade, but yet it's still in the specifications. Is it a sprints and repeat? And what do you do when you find that? Do you you notify someone at the school district or the client that this is in the specifications? It's not conducive to today's environment. So by the time that someone who's bidding on a project starts to find, you know, really digging in gonna clock. Right? You only have so much time. And depending on how large the organization is that you're dealing with, you have an initial meeting, right, some type of pre bid meeting typically. And then there's a block of time where you're gonna go by and do site visits. Well, there's a there's a clock running, and there's a hard cutoff where you can ask any questions. And then there's a chunk of time to where you can work to prepare your bid and you have a finite finished date. Right? So by the time that you are through the project, you've walked it, and now you're starting to dig in it, magically that that that time had for questions has stopped. Yeah. So it's almost like you you have to have as an organization, someone digging in to documents so that you can start asking these questions right away and have a concerted effort to try to find infer from the documents what they really want, go to the pre bid meetings and see and hear what they're saying and see how that relates to the drawings and and everything else. And so many times this starts with a really good intention. Right? School board, organization has been has had a ton of money doled out to them. Maybe that comes from a bond. Maybe that comes from federal funding, maybe a grant, whatever the case may be, and and and as a school board member, you know, they're trying to do the best that they can. And and and I wanna start off right now and say, Holy cow. A school school board members, I have a lot of respect for you. Watch it. I used to be a school board member. Yeah. But it's it's a thankless job. Right? Like, I mean, it's one of those things you you take the beating from the parents. You you have all of this roles and responsibilities. You're you're the supposed to be the steward of money, and you often are making decisions that you feel are the best and you're relying upon the people who present the information to you that they did so fair and ethically in a responsible manner in accordance to law. And so often, that's not what's really happening. And so school board members are there, and and it's almost like the hot potato, they don't wanna be the one holding the hot potato. And so they'll all kind of ask questions possibly. And then it's like, okay. Well, you know, our team says that this was good. So we just need to go with it. And Well, but a lot of times, in those particular instances, they say our team says that this is good, but what they're not even understanding is that the RFP that was put out has not even been adhered to. Right. Well, so let's so let's let well, I'm getting to the school board. We're we're jumping ahead. Okay. In the in that so the school board says, okay. I've gotten all this money. In order to make sure the things are done, I need to hire this expert, right, as an architect, consultant engineer. And and they expect a certain caliber of product. I mean, some of these, you know, agencies we have in here in Texas are massive. I mean, these are is a huge corporation. They're making a ton of money, and all they do is focus on these, like, k twelve schools. And so they then they have the What's some of their names? Oh, man. There's a bunch of them out there. Right? But I mean, it it's even so much so. You've seen some of the architects now start buying or setting up their own engineering firm so they can try to keep all of the money in house Whereas before they may have been a specialized con engineer, right, you know, an MVP engineering firm that just did mechanical electrical and plumbing, now they're under the umbrella. Might still have a different company name, but they're actually owned by this huge architect firm. And so there's been a lot of consolidation in there. The the problem is a lot of times we find that some of these people who work in these careers, their their paper certified. Mhmm. They've never actually had the practical experience of of installing the work that they're saying the way to do it and where to do it. And because they don't have the practical real world experience, they're absolutely talking out of their ass. That mean there's just no way and and they continue to show it over and over in. But from a school board's perspective, this person has credentials and I hired them and they're supposed to be the expert. And and that's not necessarily the case. So, they they now the school board has hired these people And and many times, we are finding more and more that these firms are taking the shortcut in every single absolute way. So most recently, we were involved in a very, very large project And we were involved years ago early on and met with the school and all the stakeholders And what exactly is it that you wanna do? What are the features and functions and, in that what you want. And they actually touched and felt products and saw how it could solve all of their issues and how it all works together. Fastforward once the money is in hand, they've now hired a consultant and the end product that they're going to get. Is drastically different than what they wanted and what they saw. And unfortunately, there are a lot of stakeholders who have been bamboozled. I'm just gonna say that. That's exactly what it is that what they're getting is going to do. And there are additional costs that aren't being considered annual recurring cost. And so right now, they're spending this money because they have it. But they haven't even considered and it hasn't even been conveyed to a school board who's ultimately making the decision of what this system is going to cost them year after year after year. They're not calculating in having been on the other end of that, right, when I was the executive director of security for a school district, and then also being a school board member, I can tell you that the majority of the majority of the individuals that I worked with, not necessarily my district, some at my district, but even going to some of these conferences and and and conversating with some of these other school board members, they they don't see that. They don't they are not asking the questions of how is this going to financially impact us over a period of time. Which is why, you know, what we do, the majority of what we do on the hardware There's usually not a subscription cost. It's getting harder and harder. It's getting harder and harder, but there's usually not a subscription cost because we don't want that cost to be you know, extended for a long duration. In some cases, that's maybe what the customer wants. And in that case, we we make it very clear. Right? Right. We we specifically break out in our proposals. This is what it's gonna cost, and this is what's gonna cost you moving forward. Mhmm. And there's a lot of people who don't have that transparency, and and they aren't they aren't informing, school boards about that upfront cost. So, if now we've the the end product of where they they're gonna end up is drastically different. But even more so, when we when we went back and looked at this specific situation, and I and I'm going to try my best to hold back names, but I'm I'm pretty passionate about this. Don't say names, but you let it out. It it it's it's it's it's extremely frustrating. We went, they got themselves in the jam. They needed to, pass a bond, and, they needed a budget. Right? Like, how much is it gonna cost us to do all of the things that we need to do? When did you start doing this budget for them? So this we started, at eight end to April first part of May of twenty twenty one. Okay. Right? And so that's our first things started with conversations. It started with demonstrations. It started with really having a needs assessment and understanding of what they needed, where they needed to go. And so it starts to come around June and July, and they realize they're gonna pass a bond in November and that they need a package put together so they can start advertising this. This seems awfully familiar to multiple clients that we've already worked with that over a year and a half ago, we sat down with. We did an assessment. We built the package We built the budget. They passed the bond, and they haven't spent a dollar with us yet. After we wrote the articulation for the bond to be passed, So not only did this happen to you just last week. It's happened and continued to happen to us over a period of two years now. So let's talk about last week. Nice guys finished last. Nice guys finished last. I guess. I mean, we're because that's the we did I did this I did all of this work for free. So they they come to me in a panic. They they reach out to these architects and these consultancies, engineers, and they try to talk to them about, hey, we need to put together a bond package. And these organizations, you know, want crazy money upfront to put together a bond package. Right? You're gonna pay us this much, and we need this much time. How much money do you take to do that? Zero. Zero. No. No money. Yeah. Right? And and I and I guess from here, shame on me. Right? I mean, I I guess that's really what we what I take away from this. But we were we were set in helping this this district out. Right? Like, this is they didn't remember. Understand when we started meeting with them, they had no money. No money at all. And we were helping drive the future of where they're going. So, Mike, you know, coming, Mike, we you gotta put this bond package together and and and nobody can get it done. And and and we really need to know how much does this cost. Can you help us put together an order of magnitude and and and what it's gonna take to get this done. I mean, we really need something kind of firm so that you know, we can't go back to the well. Right? Right. We need to have numbers that would get us through this in here and you know, in this district had already made some very poor, decisions on technology. So much so that they were the last district on this brand of software. And more than likely that company is gonna go bankrupt when this has changed because they're the last major customer. Right? Mhmm. So that's how bad of the per previous purchasing decisions were, and they're gonna have to forklift upgrade everything. Were those individuals who brought in that that old software or technology were they still employed at that district? Definitely, there are people on the school board who are and and I wanna say that there are some people who were still in the stakeholder meetings that were involved in this Right. Process. So typically when we we meet with people like this, they they they remember, Hey, I mean, we made this. We we went the the lowest route we went with this, we cut corners, and this is what we got. Now we're we were painful for all these years. We definitely don't wanna do this again. Right? But in this case, this is this is what they had. So we jumped. We jumped through a lot of hoops. I mean, we we walked all of their facilities. And I mean, a lot of them. We documented where they had cameras and access control and security, and we put together, you know, a true, proper quotation as far as a budget that they needed in order to do the work at hand. So fast forward, they use our number. And they, you know, are awarded the money. During the same time, a large grant comes available. And because of their size, they were entitled to the opportunity to win a lot of But in order to do so, they need help filling out the paperwork. And so we jumped through those hoops and we got up the paperwork filled out for them. We did the numbers. We put it together. And they were awarded seven hundred thousand dollars. Well, but the intent in in the the the purpose was that it would be reciprocated that you are putting in all this sweat equity. Right? It wasn't just an intent. It was boldly stated. Right? Right. This is the case maybe. Right? So fast forward, they get the bond money. Now they hire a consultant. Right? Because the school board's like, god, this is a lot of money. We we need to make sure that we we do it right. We wanna make sure that we, you know, have that arms link the way, right, that we made the best decision for the taxpayer. Awesome. This particular consultant has a bias towards manufacturer. It's known in the industry. Right? It happens to be a major manufacturer who offered the best value, best performance, to the district and checked all the boxes. They had been through multiple systems demos, and they started that process all over. But this time, they had the bias of the consultant on the scale. Right? The preferred or the the manufacturer that they have a bias against, do they require an annual subscription for their software service? They do not. They do not. Now the preferred manufacturer that they have that they provide a subscription? The one that they they put in the specifications? The one they put in the specifications. Mike, it's it's it's not just a subscription. It's an insane amount of subscription. I I know that. And that's where I'm going with that. So we're talking just licensing. Just software and licensing for the system. K? Two point eight million dollars. Two point eight million dollars annually? Well, that that is several years. Well, that's several years plus the initial licensing, but it's going to cost them five hundred thousand a year. K. Plus. Right. But I'm certain that somewhere in that agreement that they have with this consultant. Based upon that annual subscription. Mhmm. That consultant gets a a small percentage of that annual subscription. Yeah. So, typically, we'll see, we'll see a consultant agreements where, there's a fee, that they they charge a considerable amount to actually put together this and oversee the project. Yep. A lot of times that fee is also not only a fixed price, but it's also a percentage of the entire project. Right. Right. And so Which is why they have a bias against the one that does not require the annual subscription Correct. Because they're not getting paid over and over and over again. Well, I don't know that they would get paid every year off of that. So I I can't say that they're good. Even if they don't pay. But they did roll in, you know, three, four, five years up front. Yeah. So they got that initial hit. So what's interesting about that specifically is that they ran with that and, the consultant. The consultant ran with that. So, what's what's, you know, there's there's a lot of problems with this one. And and to be honest with you, this process has stepped out of the bounds so far legally that we still haven't made a decision as a company or even, multiple participating companies of exactly what we're doing. But we have significant legal basis to protest the award. And so I'm a get to I'm a get to some of those. Okay. Because I had a follow-up question, but I'll let you get there first. Yeah. So, now now this this this process, they've they've worked with the customer, they put together this thing. And and so when we remember we've walked all these schools, we have documents that our competition doesn't happen because I've actually been in every single school. We know where every card reader is, where every camera is, we know where the security systems are. We have a an intimate knowledge with this district. Right? And so you start looking at the documents of what they are planning to do and there's virtually no upgrade. Right? They're just ripping and and replacing and ripping and replacing the existence. The technology is drastically different. Yeah. You know, instead of, you know, for example, hallway corridors, we have the cameras today that's a single camera has four lenses. We can see it down every angle. It's One multi point one multi sense versus four. Right. Individual cameras. So instead of leveraging that technology, right, to the benefit of the school, they they didn't do any of that. They literally are just said, there's a camera there today. We're gonna pull it down. We're gonna put another one up, and we want you to run all new cable to it. It it didn't make any sense. It didn't make any sense at all. Right? There's other technology where you have two cameras in one hallway, today, they make cameras with two images. Yeah. It's one cable, it's one license. All of this has real consequences to cost. And in this case, laziness. That's the only thing I can get to. Right? Like, it was really simple to send a a, a low dollar entry level CAD person or somebody and say, I need you to go put a dot on a map wherever there's a camera right now, and then put it in front of a cat engineer and say, okay, this paperwork, now put it into here, and this is what we're gonna do. Instead of really spending the time and going, Look, we don't have any coverage on this door. We need to add a camera here. We need to do this. We need to do that. That wasn't done. The other thing that was really interesting about this project that I find fascinating is it it included in a whole a whole new intrusion system, but the intrusion system's over the top. Typically in k twelve, we see, you know, hallway motions. We see some really limited doors are covered. There's some glass breakage sensors. There's things like this. This particular district in or this consultant, specified having a motion detector inside of every single solitary classroom in the entire district. Here's my challenge for this. Right? They are going to spend millions and millions of dollars installing these intrusion systems. Why don't they put a motion detector in every classroom if you have to walk down an access corridor or a hallway? Well, so it it is proper it is proper security, but here's the problem with a k twelve school. If if you looked at, like, you know, from your district back when you were a security measure, you go back and pulled reports and looked at Texas City High School, right? In in high schools here are huge, but in high schools in general are huge. I mean, we do have some really big schools in Texas. The the alarm may not even ever be set during the week. Right? Because by the time schools out, You have extracurriculars that happen. Yep. The cleaning staff comes in. Ten, eleven, twelve o'clock at night. Okay. But then it's a huge facility. And they're working all night into the wee hours of the morning. And then coaches are in five AM. Five AM. And they're running and it got in. You may not even set the alarm system. Okay? How weekends come? Saturday, you're in and out. Chances are Sunday. There's probably somebody coming in and out there. Right? And so what what return? Like literally during the school year, we're talking about the alarm system being armed a few hours a week. May you know, maybe twenty four hours on Sunday and maybe, you know, maybe five hours a week. Two out it makes you put an emotion detector in every single, solid classroom. How much money do you think this district could have saved if they had just struck that item? Millions. Millions. Right? And so, you know, taxpayers, you need to start looking. So in addition to this south, you're supposed to have Cameras. You have cameras around the perimeter of the building. You have cameras in the hallway. This district has a full time police department. The technology exists that when you detect a person or vehicle Yeah. That it alerts somebody. You have a dispatcher sitting in front of a desk. Yeah. Do you need a motion detector in every classroom for when your camera analytics are detecting that individual? And you have so much redundant time staff. It was a pure waste, but this is just it just just goes on and on and on and on about the waste that was done. And so you look at it and go, look, this this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The next thing is is that, okay, so let's say that you had a kid. Let let's let's stop worst case scenario. I'm gonna really put this all out there. You have the alarm set, okay, and you don't have a motion detector in every classroom, kid breaks into a classroom. How much tech how much damage is in a in this classroom? Not much. Right. Well, some of them we have a TV. Right. They have a protector. Does does every school district out there have insurance? Yes. How many break ins at a k twelve school do you have to get to to where you're going to recoup the investment of millions and millions and millions of dollars. And you can't there's not enough. Right. Yeah. And so if you have a proper system, if they were approaching the building. You should have already had your dispatch. When you especially if you have a district with full time dispatchers, someone approaching the building, I've already got you. Right? I'm already rolling a p a patrol car out there because I got somebody out around the building. If they get into the building, right, there's cameras in the up and down all the hallways. I got you again. I know that you're in the building. I can do all of that without a security system. I'm not saying that security systems don't have a place. Don't get me wrong. It was just an over the top and one that I don't see even on brand new schools, as far as the detection that was put in there. At the cost of taxpayers, So we will fast forward here. Alright. Next, this thing comes out. The specifications are disaster. Absolute train wreck. And anybody who knows, and I was one of the few people who knew where this started, that the product selected were absolutely not going to give them the same results. Mhmm. They didn't work together. Everything's really klugey. Doesn't doesn't play well together. They're known brands that don't play well together. We all also do. Consulting agency, shouldn't they know that? That is their job. They were being hired for this Yeah. How many how many systems have we ever put together that did not absolutely work together flawlessly? None. None. Exactly. Right. And so next, you have during this process. I have visibility from these manufacturers. It's a really small Right? So everybody talks. You you know, there's lots of people who knew what was going on here. And so there were things that happened where another manufacturer who did have their stuff together were brought in again, and the conversation from the consultants was abrasive. Your system can't do this. Show me how you can do this. Well, you can't do this. Well, you can't do this. And that should tell the customer right then and there that there's there's extreme bias being played here. Right? Because they've clearly putting somebody out here, and they're only bringing them back because the customer's like, well, we saw this other product. Yeah. And it did all of these things. Well, I mean, here's the deal. I mean, you know, I have a consulting firm, m six global defense. You know, we've got thirty three consultants in sixteen states. It's my job to give the customer what they're asking for. It's also my job to provide recommendations. Mhmm. But at the end of the day, they're gonna make the ultimate decision. Right? And so you know, do I have my preferences on what type of technology that I like? Of course, of course, I do. Yes. There's certain certain technologies that I like. And the reasons why is because they play well with others. They're proven. Yes. And they're proven product. They're backed by massive companies who've been in the space for a very long time. But it's not my job to talk people out of. Right? It's my job to advise Yep. To give them the pros, the cons, Well, we we have a different philosophy. Like, when we got in the same situ if we were in the same situation, my response to that would be Let's set them both up. Right? Yeah. Show me. Okay. So let's do a pilot at this this school, and we're gonna do a pilot at this school. And we're gonna take four or five cameras, four or five doors access control, and we're gonna do the same thing over here on different platforms. Google sign is match notification. We have a full on test environment here. We could bring our customers to and show them, and we can replicate any type of software, any type of hardware, and show how it works together. Right? And so this doesn't happen at a consultant level. Remember, because they they have the credentials. They don't have the real world. Oh, I mean, look, one of our biggest clients that we have right now. I mean, we we did a assessment for this school district is a is a big deal. We're still waiting on them to to proceed forward and patiently. But at the end of the day, you know, we had our preference on what type of cameras that we wanted them to utilize because it we felt that it worked best. They had their own preference on whatever type of camera, that they wanted And so we did our homework and we said, okay. Will this will this camera that they're choosing? For whatever reasons, will it perform to the same level or at an adequate level in order for us to obtain the the the long term goal and the result of you know, having that interoperability, that integration of products, and it did. What's the cost delta? Right. Like, it would, like, and be very transparent with them and say, okay, yes. This achieves this, but this is gonna cost you more or you're gonna show some savings and being very transparent from that. We showed savings using the system, the the camera systems that they want. There's a deal. I don't care. Alright. It it does to me, it doesn't matter. Sure. Right? One way or another, we're going to get them the end result, and that's having that that ecosystem, that digital ecosystem that we've created for them, you know, so to have a have a consultant come in and just completely rip other products or other services or companies down because they don't have maybe an agreement with them or some type of Sure. You know, preferential, whatever, my Whatever. Whatever is either there. Right? To to do that is absolutely, unethical in my in my field, being a consultant. I think that's that's completely wrong. Like I said, have our preferences. Now, wait, you know, fast forward, we have visibility that prior to prior to bid day. Right? Or prior to even the RFP being released, that there was a whole lot of conversations going on with companies like us where, somebody within the school organization or the consultant organization was trying to put somebody in the middle as far as, you know, will this do this person saying this will do it? I understand you you you know this product. And and it put companies in in a weird position because you have an engineer that this becomes where this this this process is screwed. So this engineer, engineering firm focuses on k twelve. Right? So the reality is you're gonna see this engineer over and over again. Right. And then you have the customer who you're ultimately trying to take care of and do this And somehow you're trying to come out of this situation that these two forces are squeezing you in and you're trying to come out unscathed, right, so that you could live to fight another day, and you could take care of the customer at the same time. Right? And so it's a it's a really a no win situation for, an integrator. Now, I catch a lot of flack because I care about the customer at the end of the day and saying what is right less than I do the consultant. Right? Because because it's about doing guys. Well, that's the thing, and that's the difference. And that's where I was going with this is that that's the difference between you and I and a lot of the other people that we compete against is that at the end of the day, it's our reputation. Right? Our reputations on the line. Mhmm. And I wanna make the customer happy, not because they're paying me, But because I truly wanna make sure that they've gotten their money's worth, right, that the taxpayer dollar has not gone wasted on another product that they either didn't need or it didn't perform the way that it should have performed or the way they envisioned it, that it should perform. I would take it a step further. I would say that we're beyond a re approach in that we're not going to do some backdoor deals. Uh-uh. Right? There's not we're not going to get into a situation where somebody's aware of a project that we're involved with, and they're going to throw money at us, special pricing, something else, to try to get their product in over another product. Right? We're going to analyze what is the what is the the problem that you're having now where do you want to go and how do you want your system to work? And then we fill that gap with what the best of breed product is to accomplish the task at hand. And and so many people don't do that. Right? It is it is is all of these backdoor deals. So We we have visibility it now. We have more than we did at the time that this was going on. Bid day comes, prebid the the whole process comes out. And, What we now found out is that during that time, typically, under the code of ethics of purchasing and and even state law, There's supposed to be a silence period. Right? There's supposed to be a period where the parties who are involved do not have verbal conversations There is no back and forth. There's a formalized process where you ask questions. Your questions are publicized. And then the answers are shared back as a public until they're done. Yep. That back and forth communication continued. Right. Do these people not understand that that is all subject to open records requests? I I feel like it's, a lot of the other things where they don't care that nobody nobody calls them out on. Yeah. Right? So this is where we're we're we're building up here to why this is broken. Right? So, this continues on. And and I'm gonna get to the to the broken part. I'm I'm just giving you the background of story now. So so next, the way that this specific project was done, The consultant answered the question because there were there were a lot of systems in here. There was intrusion. There was access control. There was video surveillance. There was cabling. There was a lot of different aspects to this this project. And so you had people who maybe just pulled cable or maybe somebody who was a dealer for the intrusion system, but not the video or access, and they wanted to know, can I just bid the intrusion system or can I just bid cabling? So it went through the formal process. It was asked at the pre bid. It was answered at the pre bid that Yes. You can bid on any portion of the project you wanted. Here's the problem. The pricing worksheet, they did an online ion wave fitting system, right, the most of the schools that they use. And then there was also a, excel spreadsheet where they had put out, and it had all the school locations, and then there was, base bid and then alternates. And you would just basically fill them the cell. That's it. Right? That's the only communication you have back to them of what's included. So if you were a company, you could have turned in a bid, and your line item for this one school in that one cell, might be five thousand dollars. Mhmm. Because all you're gonna do is pull cable. Right. But I have access control, video, surveillance, intrusion, cabling. I have everything in my number. And my number is a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Yep. Okay. How do you know what was included in the sale? There's no way that you could communicate through this process, this formalized process that they created on what you included, or what I included. So if you're looking at your numbers, if you look at the numbers at the end of the day, what is in one bid versus another? There's no way to discriminate that information. There's no way to say this is a fully comprehensive number. This number is not. Right? And in and so that falls back on the consultant and procurement in how they came back and did. If you are going to say you can bid on any one thing or you have to bid on all, you have to have those options broken out so that you can discern pricing. Right. Right? Fast forward. Well, this this thing goes forward to a, award or, I mean, to a bit opening. And so that formalized opening process where they read it aloud. Right? And basically, they just put posted up on on a big screen, all of the numbers of everybody that put in those categories. There can be a lot of manipulation in here. Right? So at the very bottom, there was a a category called head in systems. Right? And in it, it had an option for one of these major VMSs that had a ton of fees, and then they had an alternate, and they had a couple other systems. Well, if you're trying to win the low bid, if you just excluded, yeah, just the software, on that one line item, that changes your overall bid by almost three million dollars. Yeah. Right. Just out of the gate. But If you're trying to do best by the district who may be considering that, right, well, you wanna bid all of the options so they could make the decision they wanted to do. Right? But not everybody plays by these rules. So there were people who got a three million dollar advantage right out of the bat. Okay? So now all the numbers are out there. One of the things is reputation. Right? There's a scoring matrix that goes on here. So many points for price, so much for reputation, how much have you done previously in the, the the equipment. In the specifications, it calls for, and this this example, you had to be an authorized dealer. You had to be experienced certified with the product lines that you're that they're rep requesting on here. So we know who all of those dealers are. Right? Because we go to conferences, we see them at events, you know who your colleagues are that are certified. And this is written in the specifications written in the specifications. And so how many how many finalists were there? So there were hundreds initially. It got down to, twenty six that that showed interest. And I think there were twelve final bidders, that were in there. The the school went through and had an evaluation team taking into consideration of of the of whatever information they reviewed and they got down for it. This whole process. Right? Well, the problem is is that there's a whole bunch of new documents that they're sliding into this. Right? So that's been coming out more and more and more. One of those is is that you have to sign a document that you will hold harmless, the engineering firm, the school district, any of its employees, anybody at any point of this this process and that you in order to participate in this bid must sign this document and that you will not sue them personally, any one of those organizations. After the specifications were already written. Correct. Before you even turn in the bid. In order to actually submit a bid, you have to sign that document. But it's not why are they why are they adding this document in there? Well, but shouldn't that that should go what I'm getting at is that how can they add that after the specifications are already written? Is this just a different legal agreement? Something It's something that they started adding in every one of them because they they know that they're wrong. They they they're they're doing wrong and now they're trying to get a get out of free jail card. Another thing that they've started adding in is there are very specific rules in the state of Texas as far as procurement. You have to advertise the this in multiple So many days. Yeah. So many days has to be in a public space, like newspaper or online, several different ways. You have to you have to do that. There has to be a meeting upfront to explain it. There has to be so many days prior to the bid. You have to have a scoring matrix, which a lot of schools don't even include in that, but scoring matrix shows you how they're going to grade. The matrix is kinda bullshit too, though, because, you know, I was when I was at, you know, Texas City, you know, we started doing this scoring matrix. And and you know, for a while, you know, before I got there and started reviewing this stuff, I I would ask the question and I saw it in the work that was performed and then the products that we had because there was no consistency in it is how did you score this? And not only how did you score this, but What qualifies you to score it? What knowledge do you have in this space to know what you're even looking at? Because prior to me getting there, and I still got flack, because I said, oh, I I will be the one who scores it. Based upon the knowledge and the experience and skills that I have, not the chief financial officer who's only looking at the low bid. So let's let's talk about it, and I'll give you the example. I'll give you the numbers from the example that we're talking about here and talking not talking about. So, fifty five points or fifty five percent of the rating, right, and the scoring metric went to price. Out of a hundred. Out of a hundred. K? Okay. So So more than fifty percent goes to price immediately. Immediately. Yeah. Okay. K. So in this situation, There were, let's let's just say after the evaluation committee, they they selected four vendors, right, for the evaluation committee. They they they basically had a short list. They got it down to these or evaluation committee puts that in front of the four. It says, hey, this is it. Yes. Three of the four were authorized dealers for the product. According to the specifications that it says you have to be. Correct? Not you may be. Correct. You have to be. Correct. Okay. So three of the four were authorized dealers according to the specification. Absolutely. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Number four is not. Yes. So they should be disqualified immediately. Absolutely. According to the specifications, Absolutely. Okay. Here's the crazy part. The other the three that knew the product line and have done it and supported the product and know it inside now. We were all less than ten percent, like, less than eight percent away from each other. K. And on a huge bid, that's really hard to do. Yeah. Right? Because everybody has their own way of bidding things, everything else. That's as tight as you could possibly get on this side of the project. That's a hard decision. That that is there. Right? Yeah. Then you get to reputation. Well, okay. So these these three who know what they're doing, they're all within within, like I said, eight percent of each other. I mean, it was tight, real tight. Right? Then you got number four who's not a dealer. They're six million dollars lower. Then everyone has the lowest of the other three. Okay. Six million. I know where this is going. Okay. Next, There was twelve, sixteen points awarded to refutation. K? Okay. Two of the three at a perfect score. They got all sixteen points. The low bid who isn't qualified, six million dollars low isn't certified on the portal. Got all sixteen ports. Well, had the worst reputation rating of any bidder who turned it in. So now the fourth one is not met the specifications of being a licensed dealer integrator. Now they have the worst reputation. Okay. Keep going. So the short list happens and they're typically four, you know, six million dollars less six million dollars less. Alright. Okay. So typically after a shortlist is made, right, what what normally happens is you're called in for some type of interview. K. There's a, you know, hey, what's in your bid? Do you have this covered? Here's a list of questions. I wanna make sure that this is included in your bid. Many times it might actually be an interview where they bring you in, and they wanna talk about, you know, your organization, who's gonna be the project manager? What's his credentials? Really diving into your schedule. Mhmm. Where how are you gonna get this done in this time? How are you gonna man this job. Okay. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? These types of things that typically happen, whether that's an individual or a couple people from the team or an in person formal, you know, meet and greet. Right? That's typically what happens because you're gonna have to make this decision. So, you know, it's been it's been weeks now. Right? This was supposed to be bid wrapped up in thirty days where We're now months and months in this process. You know, August comes. They they put the short list. Like, alright. Well, look, we know we're gonna do this. There's there's discussions about breaking the project up. And so you're like, well, hey, you know, at a minimum, we should be able to get, you know, at least a fourth. We knew there was a problem with another one did. So, realistically, maybe we we were gonna get a third of the project. That's what you're kinda thinking. You get in there. Weeks go by. Nothing. Like, man, that's that's odd. Start making phone calls, consultant. Leave a message. I'm gonna make a callback. Call again a message. No calls back. Alright. Well, let's call the school. Alright. There's talk to procurement and go, hey, what's going on? What's next steps? There's been zero communication on your part. You're not talking to anybody. You know, we made this evaluation team, you know, selected us. What does this mean? What are what are we gonna do? No calls back. When are we gonna do our follow-up questions Yeah. Interviews? It's some other information you need from me, what, you know, anything. Like, give me something. Nothing. No return calls. Call again. Call again. And you've got all this documented. Of course. Yeah. So the next I'm like, well, I'm a call one of these other guys do on this list. Right? One of the other what do you qualify for? Yeah. And I say, hey, man. Have you heard anything from them? Are they talking to you or whatever? No. I was actually gonna call you because we've called a consultant, and we've called the school, and no one's called us back. That's weird. Okay. Well, let's keep it up. If you hear something, let me know. Right? Alright. So we both keep up our calls to consult it here. Then Monday rolls around and The board meeting agenda is posted, and they're gonna award the project to number four who's not qualified six million dollars low as the worst reputation as the worst reputation score. Right? How? How did you make that decision? What was in our bids? Remember, nobody has contacted us. Nobody knows what is in this bid versus that bid. Or is included in this Well, how do you as a school board member? I mean, I know that if I were a school board member and I saw, you know, I had four potential you know, individuals or companies that we were gonna award, you know, twenty million dollars to. Right? I'm gonna just say that that's what the number was. Roughly twenty million dollars. I damn sure would be asking a few things. One, how did number four even get on the list because they're not They didn't meet the specifications set for the card. The have that information. Okay. But hold on. Even be let's go beyond that. K? Let's say that I'm solely just looking at price. Mhmm. And I see that three of the four are within that eight percent margin. K? And this one is six million dollars less, which is a significantly lower margin. Right? K? I'm gonna ask whoever's responsible. How did they get to that number? If we're talking apples to apples We're getting to why this is screwed This is why we're getting into this. This is this is me as a school board member, and this is every school board member should be asking the same questions. Should be? They're not. But the problem is is that they rely too heavy on the individuals that work for that district who quite frankly And I just put a poll out on LinkedIn about unqualified educational leadership making decisions in this space, which they should not be making. And so they lean on their IT director. They lean on their, in most cases, not security director, but they're superintendent. Or someone else facilities. Facilities, maintenance operations, police chief. So as a school board member, those school board members should have saw the discrepancy in numbers, that should have been red flag number one. You are making a great assumption there. It's not an assumption. No. No. It is. And here's why. You're assuming that they saw the numbers. What you can don't tell me they didn't see the number. Here's here's what's this is you're gonna love this bite. This is why this process is so screwed up. This is why we gotta talk about this. Vote on a twenty million dollar contract and don't see the numbers. So in their packet, there is a resolution. And the resolution is This is who we recommend. This is who we recommend. Yeah. Side. And and and that's it. And so they have this packet. Many board members have full time jobs. They're doing other things. They get on Thursday for the next Tuesday. I know the I know it all too well. And so there You know how many board members have sat with me and said, hey, I didn't read my packet. What? Yep. I I I was one of the ones who read everything verbatim word for word. Hold on. So it gets better. So We go through this thing, right? And so I see on Monday, hey, this is coming up. How? This doesn't make any sense. They're not even a dealer. There's the discrepancy. I knew what the reputation score was because they showed it at the bid opening. Yeah. So they have the worst reputation. How how does this happen? Then no one even talked to anybody. I'm gonna say something. Right? So what's the process? In Texas, and this is what I can speak to, you have very specific requirements. You have to be at the board meeting sometimes an hour to thirty minutes before and sign up or in some cases you can email, in advance, within twenty four hours of the of the event that you want to speak. There's, in many cases, an allotted block of time, it thirty minutes maximum. So they some districts allow two minutes. So I'm allowed three minutes. And you so if it's thirty minutes, there can only be ten speakers. Right? And so if there's eleven people who wanna speak, Sorry, Charlie. You can't sign up. Yeah. You can only talk about an item that is on the agenda. Yep. For three minutes. For three minutes. Yep. So, I have all of this information. Understand, I have been involved with this since April or May of twenty twenty one. So imagine the amount of knowledge that I have on this subject. More than the consultant. Way more because he didn't way more. They that team didn't come into a way later way later. Yeah. Okay. So I have all of this back knowledge. And I am going to go speak to school board members who are just now even seeing anything about this. Like, we're going to award this project. This is what it's gonna go, and I sign up to get my three minutes. It it takes me it takes me an it's an afternoon. It takes me several times. Several revisions, and speaking so fast to try to hit the specific highlights to get a point across to strike a nerve with one of those school board members to where they can Raise a question. Raise a question. Yeah. Where they can ask something where they like, wow. That can't be true. Well, you know, this kind of stuff. So we I go through and I say it. I I put it all out there. Right? I put it all out there. Yeah. Right? And, and I've got these big old eyes looking back at me. Right? Like, oh, man. Like, this doesn't sound good. Right? So what that's it. Right? How is it possible? I understand that the district doesn't want someone to come in and train wreck their board meeting. In my specific case, there was nobody else signed up to sign. So they had allotted thirty minutes for public form, public comments. Yes. They could have given me more than three minutes. They could have asked me a question. Right? But but that didn't happen. So I got my three minutes. I put it all out there. I even included a packet that I handed every one of the board members, of the highlights and and backup documentation showing the screenshots from the bid opening showing all of those things. So they go into deliberations for about an hour closed door session And then they come back and, you know, it's it's it's awesome. They they are doing, all the awards for students who have achieved milestones of whatever they need. They got the the orchestra playing. It's it's a great feel good environment. Right? They're doing great. And it really remind you of what these school board members are all about and the stewards of what they're doing. And then business starts, and they run through the business like, literally read the resolution, any comments, okay, I, Yay's, I have it, move on, and they're just hammering through. And so they finally get to my business at hand, which was the resolution about our project. Mhmm. And it opens up into twenty six minutes of discussion. Right? And, it took somebody within the team of the school to go and print the actual bid tab to make copies and hand it to all the school board members so that they could see the comparative numbers that I had included in my time. But again, they're solely looking at low number Correct. What they're not understanding But that's the first time that they had seen the numbers that that's Of all the letters. This has gotta change. Legislators, listen to us. And we're going to be meeting with them. Mhmm. I promise you we're gonna be meeting with the legislators here. This process is completely broken. This has to fig this has to be This has to be rectified because it's not it's not right. You are as a as a school board member, you're a good steward of the taxpayer dollars. For you to not even ask to see the rest of the numbers is a problem. Yeah. Right? And so not to cut you off, but one of the things I remember this night because I was I was hurt for you because I know how much work that you guys have put into this. A ton. And, you know, that I know how much work we've put into other projects where we kinda see the same the same course happening to us where we've worked our tails off a lot of times for free. In most cases, for free, to do the right thing to give the people the right products and process and plans only for us to continue to be screwed over. We have written bond proposals in excess of twenty million dollars that was passed a year ago Twenty million just for our scope. Just for our scope that these individual districts have been sitting on for over a year after the bond passed in which we wrote the articulation for. So this is not the first time. No. It's not a one off. And not gonna be the last time. The reason why we're talking about it is this this wound is fresh.