Focusing on Narrative in Designing a ‘Disney Experience’

Whether it's digital or analog design that keeps you busy today, it's all about the experience. This is experience by design, a podcast exploring the latest trends and solutions, helping create the most intriguing experiences you can imagine. And the ones you can't, hosted by Brian Lazaro's. Welcome to another episode of the experience by design podcast I'm your host, Brian mesero. And today we welcome Lee kitchen entrepreneur, former Disney innovation catalyst and owner of magical dude consulting. Lee is a five star innovation catalyst's keynote speaker, workshop leader, culture change agent, design thinking trainer, Avengers and Star Wars fanboy and overall magical dude. Lee brings a wealth of experience as a certified master facilitator and long term innovation agent. During his '32 years at the Walt Disney company, he helped create some of their most impactful marketing campaigns, memorable guest experiences and real time operational efficiency changes. It is awesome. I'm super excited to welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks, Brian. Thanks for having me. This is really exciting. Thanks for that great intro to. Yeah, I know this is awesome. I've been really apt to talk to you. So so this is cool. I'm super and I am, I'm jazzed. Thanks we will. We met at that happy hour dude. And that so much fun. I love you know, I'm one of these people that actually love zoom's and like the more the merrier. And that was like, what, like 300 people in that room. And I had a blast hosting that thing. So thank you. You got it. I got to say, you bought it. You bought it. So I mean, I wish. I'm going to try my best to sort of paint this visual. But I mean, here here's this guy in this room and it's complete DJ set up. There's lights, there's music, there is personality. There's like energy going. And and that was even before I had my first drink. And so you're like, that is awesome. I, I just need to stick around on this. So so Yeah. And that that kind of is like, well I got it. I got to talk to this guy. Thanks man. I take pride in that, too, because you know, we're all doing this same thing over and over and there's so many people that are just doing it, just this basic stuff. And it's so boring. And we're not designed to sit here and watch our screens all the time. So I had to do it differently because it doesn't have to be boring. You know what I'm saying? It's true. It's true. I mean, I mean, I guess if you think about it, I mean, we all create experiences. And so, I mean, what do you what the impression you're getting Kassis, this boring guy in this room and not have any energy coming at you? I don't know, sort of just kind of takes away from what the whole purpose of, I mean, part networking. But then also, I mean, this is who you are. I mean, this is you are like you want to come out with your best foot and be up and swing. And I always tell people, you don't you know, it's not like we're watching YouTube videos here. These are real people. And so I tell people, try to make it is in real life as possible. I mean, it's not the most optimum. I'd much rather be hanging out with you right now, sitting at a bar, chit chat and stuff like that. But we can't do it right now, so let's make the best of it online. And you have to act like it's real life, you know, and a lot of people may not be doing that yet, but I've done it since the beginning. And I will continue to do it just to kind of showcase that we can, you know, run business efficiently and get together and have fun times on this platform. You know, I still ask I mean, is it is it. How do you mean, how are you finding it? I mean, you're coming out of it. This environment. I know you're doing the consulting now, but I mean, how do you find kind of this change from having these workshops in a room with people face to face to now, you know, doing this online? I think to your credit, I mean, you need to bring that energy. But how do you find it working with your clients? It's funny because, you know, back in my Disney days, I remember I my boss was like, you know, we can never do video. We always have to get people in person. So if we had Disneyland people, they would have to fly out to Florida. And we had to be in person. And and it was true. Because being a person, especially when you're coming up with ideas, getting people excited and enthusiastic when they're in person is a lot easier. So what I did is, is I just like I said, I tried to treat it as in real life as possible, as if I was actually in the Innovation Lab and, you know, welcome people as they come in. I make sure I bring presents to the room. So it's like, let's do a quick exercise to make sure everybody's paying attention, know, even simple as just saying, hey, you know, I mean, how many times do you walk into a conference room and everybody ignores you? You know, that happens. So much on zouma. You're like, dude, if you were walking into a regular conference room, I would say Hi to you. Hey, where are you from? Hey, that shirt's looking good, you know, I mean, I try to do the same kurtosis as we would get in real life. And I've actually found that a lot of the same things that I do in person session work perfectly for an online session. So just I make sure I signal up front, hey, this is a. Kind of how I want you to behave for the day, let's all agree to that. Here's the two and don'ts of today. Everybody follows the rules, you know, and I also send the rules out in advance. So I'm like, hey, in order to participate, you have to show your video. There's nobody showing up with a bag over their head at my meeting. Right you have to show your video. You have to be ready to interact. You have to be ready to move in and out of rooms. And also, we have to do this a little bit quicker because we don't want to sit on this thing for more than about two hours, maybe four at max. But it's hard to sit there and stare at the screen for that long. So in the middle, I get people up to dance. You know, I'm like, hey, let's. And even if you don't want to dance, just stretch it out and move it around. So you get the blood flowing to your brain again. A lot of you got to know because no, you have to do this due out. I mean, two hours is I mean, I can't my attention span doesn't go long. It really doesn't like an humans that it's. No, we're not designed to do a brain really. But it's tough though. I mean, it's I mean, you. I kind of doesn't seem but I mean, you're working with clients that are in high energy environments or brands. And so, you know, you need to get them thinking like that. You need to have the energy level high. And I think that's what produces the best ideas that come out of it. It's Yeah. That you just you have to set that tone. So I. I appreciate that. It's nice to hear that someone else is thinking like that. Yeah and I also I make sure that I do like if we do, if we're creating ideas for example, and if I have to break people into breakouts, I'll bring them back in. After we're done with that, we'll do another energiser and I'll make sure people get plenty of time to break, to go get something to drink, to stand up. And then we'll do a quick energiser to get our brain power back and then go right back into it. And and also I do that in person. So if you were coming to one of my sessions in person, I wouldn't have 30 people yelling at me, all ideas and me running on a flip chart. I would break people up into groups of four and make it more casual and conversational to make sure that both introverts and extroverts can get ideas out. So the same principles apply. You do have to do a lot more telling in advance and signaling, though, because unfortunately, you know, the business world hasn't really set the stage and the standard for how we should all behave in this environment. So I like to just say it up front. I'm like, here, here's what we're going to do. Here's how we're going to do it. And let me just tell you before we get there, and I'll tell you once again, when we get there. And let's make the best of it. When you're saying about setting up. You're setting up questions, you're going to set the expectations. I mean, have you had the challenge? You know, I mean, it's kind of hard for people, I mean, we're so used to being out there in the wild and interacting with one another. And I mean, I think we're I think it's fair to say probably you and I do the same thing is that you can't help but observe those somewhere. You observe you think about it. And that's inspiration. Those are the and obviously, the pictures that I put in front of clients, I'm like, oh, this. Look at that. I mean, it's a little bit harder today, I think, for some, because they're not out there as much. I mean, how do you find that? I mean, are you. I mean, how are you being able to sort of extract ideas when they might not be necessarily out there? Yeah, well, a couple of ways, like if I'm asked to do a session for somebody, I always do a lot of different lateral exercises or lateral exercises. If you think about design thinking and creative problem solving, that date back to the 60s. And Alex Osborn and Sid Parnes, it's basically, we're not going to look at our challenge straight forward. We're going to take this little lateral journey to get to where we're going. And one of the things I do is I show I bring stimulus into the room, so I'll go and collect a lot of different examples of how other businesses are doing things, not necessarily even in the business that I might be working with, but other different kinds of businesses have solved this kind of challenge before. And we're going to extract the principles behind what's in that, you know, the way that somebody else has solved it to apply to your challenge. Now, a lot of times people don't have time for that. So I'll do it mostly myself. And I'll usually assign homework to the crew that I'm working with, say, hey, go out and look, you know, what else is happening on the world. And then I tell them, I said, of you, if you struggle with it, I actually host this, this once a month, usually on the first Friday of every month thing called the inspiration in the box where me and my good buddy Sean brown, we collect a lot of new products and marketing tactics and services and new ways of doing old things and old ways of doing new things. And we present about 15 slides once a month. Just come and be inspired and whatever, you know, it might be the catalyst that you need to think about something a little bit differently. And it's so far has been really successful. It's something we used to do at Disney. And it was really popular because I told people, you can't get your Pinterest feed and you can't get to your know, wherever you go for inspiration to show up once a month. And we will inspire you and send you back out into the world of that. Yeah, it's awesome. We have a really great following of people. A a lot of folks from my former Disney realm joined us. But it's really a positive thing because people love being inspired. And so many times we're so busy, we don't know, that's the thing that gets dropped off the list, right. Is is checking your feeds to see what's out there, because we're so you know, we're so caught up in our own little world. So I just make it. So Hey, it's easy. Just just give me an hour out of a month. And I'll inspire you. And you can take that inspiration, do whatever you want with it. Know, it's just you kind of say that. I mean, it's I think sometimes it's maybe the part that I kind of forgot. I mean, I think for us, it does. So in tune of where to look or how to look. Even if you're stuck inside, you still kind of aware of where to find inspiration or had had a few things. And I think sometimes people. I think you're right. I mean, they kind of forget or they're just not they're not doing that often. Yeah, it's sort of like a lost art of observation that you have to kind steer them in the right direction for. Yeah, I recommend I recommend a lot, especially with people that are stuck in a rut. So if you're stuck looking outside is really important. And looking outside could be going to a different restaurant. It can be listening to a different kind of music. It can be talking to somebody with a different viewpoint than your own. I also tell people, if you have kids, ask, ask your kid how to solve this business challenge. You know, simplify that challenge and ask your son or your daughter how would they do it. And you get such really great, interesting, you know, unbiased feedback. It's just it's a wonderful thing. Just going to different places is a great way to make sure that you're going to think differently about it. Right, how do you find this question to the other people that have been on I mean, how do you find you talk about behaviour? You know, it's like, there's a lot of what we think will happen. There is a lot of observation, how we think human behavior is changed or so. I mean, but it's still a bit of an unknown. Part of it is. I love the fact that it sets up a lot of Brandes environments to experiment. And try different things. And see if I mean, how do you bring that level of experimentation into is it the strategy sessions to where you say there is no right or wrong? Absolutely Yeah. And I and I make sure that I sit up front because what a lot of times what happens is people look for solutions that fit what they're doing. So they're programmed to just see what they can extract from it. So I tell them, stop looking for a solution and just start looking. So when I do an empathy session, I make sure that the people that are trying to solve the challenge get a chance to walk among their consumers. And one of the things that I tell them up front is don't just look for clues that lead back to your challenge. Write everything down because you never know. The observation that you make might connect with another observation that somebody else make, and it will lead to a good hypothesis. And then a good. What I call a springboard to solve that challenge. And we're so geared to only hear what we want to hear. And so I have to tell them upfront, don't just listen for what you want to hear. Listen for everything. Now, you know, do you think there's enough listening going on during this period, though? Absolutely not. No, definitely not. You know, I actually teach. I teach a workshop on I call it listening for the future. And I was I was really inspired by an author. And I'm sorry for giving the author, but it was like late late 90s, early 2000s that talked about active, empathetic and generative listening and basically active listening is listening truly and not listening to respond. And so many times, especially in corporate culture, when we listen to another person talk, we're just waiting to say our thing. Right we're just we're not really hearing the words that they're saying. We're just waiting to see what we need to say. And sometimes we just have to stop and listen. Right and actually take it in and and, you know, mirror and validate back what they told us. And then instead of trying to come up with solutions, let's ask that person questions and see if we can help them generate their own solutions. Right and it's really similar to if you're in the coaching realm. I'm sure a lot of coaches do that. They keep asking questions of their clients. So the clients can kind of figure it out for themselves. And it's a really great thing when it works like that. But but, yeah, in my opinion, we need to listen to each other much more. Trust me. Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's what I had had discussions. Yeah Yeah. It's really difficult for me to do because I'm an extrovert. So I'm and also I'm slightly 8d and I'm untreated. So I have I have to get it out before I forget it. And actually my fiance drives my fiance crazy because I will ask her a question and she's giving me a thought out answer, and I will interrupt her to answer the ask the next question. And she's like, dude, you have to let me answer the first question. I'm sorry. I'm going to forget the next question. Yeah Yeah. So, yeah, it's a hard thing to do bro. Yeah Yeah. I can tell by the club. Yeah good, good, good. Which is why I can help. I mean, I told you. I was, we were talking earlier before we started recording. But I would love to help people relationships because in relationships usually listening is a key thing that a lot of us don't learn until, you know, about 10 or 15 years down the relationship. And man, if I had known that at the beginning, I would if I were to listen so, so much better. You know, it's like if the older self can go back and talk to the. Exactly, exactly what is it? What is it? The youth is wasted on the young. I love that. I just thought that's a great phrase is a great phrase. So how do you. I mean, the other. I guess even the other added to that too is, is that how much do you think is as far as social influence goes, is back onto experiences and the way that brands communicate? You know, I mean, social influence in the sense of, you know, the message of what the brand puts out there. But then there's the other control, which is how people react to it and posting their comments to it. Yeah, I'm a big believer in authenticity rules. I think that I think, especially in today's day and age, you you have to walk the talk and people can see through that stuff. So quickly. I mean, just thank goodness for the internet, because we can see through it. If you're not being authentic and coming from a place like Disney, you know, one of the things that Disney really does well is, is that attention to detail. And and so you can tell that they and I'm the biggest Disney critic ever. I remember when I went to I was lucky enough to go to Shanghai Disneyland for the grand opening and everybody was talking how great. The Pirates ride was. And I was so skeptical because I know when we cut corners, you know, I, I know if there's a black light or some kind of projection, I'm like, oh, we couldn't afford the auto animatronic. Right and man, when I rode pirates, I was just blown away because. We did not cut any corners on that ride and that experience, and it was just so authentically Disney and it was just like everything that I had heard and read about what the imagination put into that ride was just so incredible. And I hear the same thing about rise of the resistance. I haven't actually been on it yet. I can't wait to go on it. But I think just being genuine and authentic is a big deal these days. And and it's hard for people to be convinced unless you're really walking, walking that walk and talk on that talk, you know, actually, it does occur. Got four seconds. I went on that ride, so I went there. I was winterreise. I went, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not that, not that. I'm sorry. Not that one. Not that one. But but pirates' I went. Oh Yeah. In Shanghai. Come on, man. What a great experience. I was super excited to go to that one and two years ago. Two years ago, I was over there. And my wife and I spent Thanksgiving there at Disneyland. And I and it was you know, it's cool. Like then we stayed at the hotel and the next day just stormed the park and, you know, even got the turkey. Like, this is such a hard fight in China. But but there's I mean, to the authenticity, you know, is very consistent to what, you know, you would find. But that ride was just it. It was blue. I mean, I don't want to give it away or spoil it. But you're right, the visuals and the combination of live action and audio, animatronic and projection and all the magic tricks that Disney does is all in that ride. And also it hearkens back to the first pirates and it pays tribute to the Pirates franchise. And it's just amazingly well done. And we were lucky, because we got to go on a lot of test rides for it. So, like, we would break for lunch and go on and ride it. And we rode it like 20 times. It was it was fantabulous every single time. Well, I mean, the question authenticity. And maybe this is just staring off a second. I mean, how do you seems like a lot of theme parks now and then reading? I mean, it's going after Disney, you know, and do they and I think that's where they missed their cue. Is that what makes Disney disney? Is the authenticity part of it? Yeah, it's just they're just, like you said, every attention to detail. You are you are immersed in that environment. You step into the park, and you are immersed into it. Yeah, I mean, every aspect of that that park and you go through Epcot and you go through all the countries. I mean, there's elements of that that actually bring you into there. Right, right down to the beer. I mean, the beer is, you know, from there. And Yes, but it it makes you feel like that. And I just wonder, is that do a lot of know, on the theme park side, do a lot of them really sort of understand that, you know, the best intentions can fall flat. If there's not a real identity of authenticity? Yeah, I just I saw a news story. It was I don't know how old it is, but it was a story about a little girl who had built a fairy garden by this tree outside of her outside of her house in an urban environment. And this lady saw that she did that. And she she actually put she actually built a little home for her fairy there and started writing notes to the little girl. And they exchanged notes like she was the fairy. And the little girl was just so fascinated by it. And then a month later, she just they decided to me. And so this lady basically donned her fairy attire and they brought this fantasy to life for this little girl during covid who couldn't see anybody. And it was the most magical thing outside of Disney that I had seen. And and the thought that I had was this is just an individual. This is not a company. This is not a corporation. This is one person who decided to take it upon herself to just do something magical for a little girl. And it was just the most beautiful thing. And it just it didn't take much. She just wrote a letter to her, and she built a little thing. And it was just like, you know, not it wasn't a whole lot of effort just to bring magic to a little girl's life. And I was just I was blown away by that. And a lot of companies trying to replicate Disney can learn something from what this lady did because it didn't really take much. Girl, what's just so enamored by it. And it was just such a magical story. And and actually, I did a similar thing for my fiancee, Sarah. You know, we were getting we were just getting claustrophobia. You know, we have this little apartment where I live part time in Canada. And I decided that I was going to treat her on a Friday night to a Disney experience. So I basically decked out our house as different attractions via video and via chairs and via my Hewlett's. Right so we actually went on the carousel. We went on the Haunted Mansion and I and we went on Splash Mountain. I had a little spray gun with water that I got was Splash Mountain. And we went on. We had to go on. Tough to be a. And, you know, tickle her feet and stuff like that, and then we watched the illuminations together, I had popped some Disney popcorn. She had actually shared a popcorn thing that she kept from the last visit. And I had the lights going with the thing. And it was just this magical experience in our little apartment. And I said, it really didn't take much. And like you were talking about those companies that are trying to replicate Disney, little things make all the difference, attention to detail, authenticity. It's so important. If you lose that attention to detail, it's what makes it, you know, it's just it's so great. Do you think, you know, it's and then it goes across the board. I mean, it's you can apply that to retail. You apply that. Absolutely yes. Transportation and so on. But I wanted to I mean, you know, I live very much in the digital experience. And so, you know, there's that challenges when you inject elements of digital into it. Does that does that take away from this ability to have an authentic experience to where maybe it's not tactile? You're not touching something necessarily. Yeah you're on your phone. So I believe that it doesn't. But I also think that it makes it more challenging because you have to find moments to where you take people's eyes away from there, the device screen and force them to actually do something. I mean, do you do you see that or how much of that. Do you think through in terms of, you know, when there's a mobile or there's a display and that ends up appearing? You know, how do you think about that with bringing that into authenticity? Or, again, it's complete? I was mesmerized by the emails that I was getting from the fictitious place on the westworld show. I was watching mesmerized. I mean, they were sending me emails from the actual company. And I was fascinated by that because they were really bringing me into the story. And isn't that what Disney does? Right now, we make you part of the story. And I love that. I, I, I eat it up and I'll go as far as to signing up for the emails and just I want to see what they have to offer. And if there's a correlating app or something like that, you can really bring people in that way, but you can't rely on it altogether. There has to, it has to come through 60. So so as people think about those, just think about how you those different touch points, I can bring it all together is the advice I would give there. But it's I think we're still right. People love that stuff. I mean. And they talk about it, you know. Yeah but I think you said that. You said that. But you said that one word. It's story. It's a story. That's what's forgotten sometimes. I mean, you introduce a narrative, you find moments to dissect parts of that narrative. You find opportunities to take their digital, their eyes away from that. And I mean, every I mean, back to the Disney point in every q line that you're in. I mean, you were telling the story as you make your way to the ride. And you're like, I'm in this world. Yeah, I feel connected to it. And it's not just it's a nice. I mean, I want to be the jump over and over, but I think it's a good, but it's I think it's a good point. I mean, you you tell the visual story, whether it's through a display or it is the way that the line is designed, attention to the elements. There's attention to the scenery, to how you move in the space. Yep I mean, it's all thought through to set you up for that. You know, this is it. This is the climax. I tell you a funny story about that, Brian. I just thought a really funny story, but I work seven years at Disney Cruise Line. Amazing group of people to work with. I mean, some of the most passionate Disney people. Have you ever been on a Disney cruise before? I have not. I have. Oh, my God. The cruise. It's an amazing product. And I can't wait for them to recover from this. And get back to doing what they do best because it's amazing. But I came into work on a Friday before the holidays. And I was on the floor with all the entertainment people. So and imagineer so these guys were like, you know, light years ahead of me. I was a marketing guy. Right and that morning, they say, hey, we're having a Christmas storytelling contest or I'm sorry, a holiday decorating contest. And I hadn't decorate at all. So I whipped up some lights and I put them in different parts of my office and I made this whole fairy story up or something like that. And I put the Nutcracker music behind it. And as people into my office, I told them this little story. And I won the contest. And it was only because everybody else just had display. And I put a story to it. And people were just like loving this little story. And I totally put it together in like 31 minutes. And they were loving it. And I end up getting the prize for it. But it was really because I just mesmerized people with the different little parts I had in the story. Man, it's really important. People love that stuff. Yeah, they really do. I think there's, you know, is the art of storytelling. Yeah, I don't want to say it's a lost. I don't say it's a lost art. I just think it's an art that sometimes isn't connected or bought into that. Yeah that strategy process. And I think everyone is so fixated on it. And the solutions. The Problem that I think sometimes you see the word story, it's but I'm not really trying to tell a story here. I'm just trying to sell something. I'm just trying to hook you up in. And they both. But it's all connected back. I mean, it's a journey that has this is how you got here. It's a story as to why you even want to be here, or why you want that. And I do it in business to Brian. I actually, when I do an innovation project, I encourage my clients to let's not just gather the leaders around at the end of the project and show them what we've created. I actually encourage them to walk the walls with their leaders and tell them the journey of how we got to where we were like, how we decided on what we were solving, for how we explored and really dug deep with our consumers, how we generated ideas and what platforms we jumped off from, and then the idea is that we generated. And what I find is, is the leaders are bought in. By the time they get to the empathy, they're like, wow, they see it themselves. So when you go to sell ideas, it's so much easier to sell ideas because they saw how you got there. You know, so many times leaders will turn down ideas because they don't understand why you are pitching them an idea, because they don't understand the work that went into it. So I strongly suggest people tell the, you know, of the journey of how they got to that innovation before they even released that. You know, now that's a really good point. That's a really good point, because that's overlooked as well. How did you get there? What was the process that got us there? Exactly Yeah. Yeah, I like I like that a lot of things you're saying right now, just completely sorry. You know, I go on forever about this stuff. I'm very passionate about this now. I absolutely love it. I love it. So so I had to ask him to kind of go into a little bit more of the playful side. So so once we get in, obviously, there's good things in the future, I think, for all of us. But the world opens up and it's safe to get out there. I mean, where are you going? I mean, what is one experience you done so well? A couple of things. One, I have a but wonderful fiancee. I met her three years ago. We haven't seen each other in six months. So I live part time in Canada. I'm going by to see her. I'm actually going before the stuff opens up, going January 4th. So can't wait to do that. I can't wait to be reunited with her. But I'm also a I'm a boater here in Florida. And I haven't been able to be out in the water since February. So I can't wait to get out on the water and go see some nature and hang out. One of my favorite places to go is the Florida Keys. And I want to go when it's more open. So, you know, you can do the whole thing down there. So I'll definitely be hitting the keys probably next summer. Fingers crossed. OK, OK. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah, I haven't I need to get back down to Florida. Haven't there's a lot of places I need to go. Yeah, the Florida Keys is like a tropical haven in the United States. So you don't have to have a passport to get there. But it's just like you're going to a tropical island in the Caribbean. I think my it my knowledge of the keys probably is extends from bloodline. Oh Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of Yeah. I go to most of those places because they film that and actually both Key Largo and the maratha and most of those places are frequence. I mean, I've been traveling there for 30 years on vacation and love every one of those scenes. Definitely and movie. I'm going to have to meet you down there. Yeah I'm not blowing up any boats, any time soon though. So that's the opposite of what you want to do when you're on a boat, right. Right Yeah. I don't want to go. I don't want to go that that of love. But some of us, some of the scenes from there. And the go see that's awesome. So I have to the last thing I feel like on the show, I have to have to put out rumors. I have to have to ask. So there's a rumor. I think you mentioned it before. So it's probably true, this dance party. So I want to this a rumor? Is this true? This is true. It's not that we need details. So so, you know, everybody had their thing during covid, right. To keep themselves busy and creative. A lot of people were committing sweater's I had some people that, you know, they built this elaborate, elaborate stuff in their backyard. Some people retiled their house. I, I have been doing since roughly 1986. I used to do a lot of parties and a lot of weddings for all my Disney friends. I stopped about 27 frankly, because I was tired of lugging equipment everywhere is really kind of a drag. So soon as the digital age comes up, I still have my collection of know, I have tons of music, I own tons of music, and I decided to buy a DJ controller just to have fun. I bought it in 2015 never used it. And then this thing came up and I'm like, I started playing with it. And I had a really good buddy of mine in Los Angeles, a game composer named jarraud Marino. Amazing guy. He was, he was doing this twitch thing on Tuesday nights and he's like, dude, you should start doing it. It's a lot of fun. You could be creative and stuff. I was like, oh, you know, blah, blah, blah. He's like, dude, you should just do it. You should just do it. So I decided I got back from Canada about July. I decided to do a Friday night thing. And I started with, you know, three people watching me actually watch my first show. It's nobody's watching me. I'm just DJing for myself. Basically, but, you know, I rekindled my love for it because I love music, and I miss the nightclub scene man, I love going dancing, I love going out. And I feel like nobody could go out. So I wanted to kind of help people create their own nightclub in their house. And so I just started mixing some upbeat dance music. And one of the things that I like is I'll totally mix genres. So any given night on my feet, you'll hear me play some French EDM into some 70s rock and roll into some dubstep, into some 60s. I mean, I go the gamut on it. And I love it. And it's an hour and a half every Friday night, nine to 10, 30. It's on twitch.tv/autoblog leiby zt and you should join in and also make sure you turn it up on your home theater because it's got some thumping bass. And if you want to dance, it's a great way to kind of get rid of the stress from the week. I say, you know, dance. I would say dance like nobody's watching. Right that's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. I'm really hot right now. Yeah, man. And we were talking about fresh input. We were talking about fresh input before. So I tell people to if you need fresh input, just come listen to my feed because I play. So many different genres in one night you'll hear I mean, there's not one thing probably you won't hear. I play. So many different kinds of things. That's a great way to get fresh input. You know, there's a genre of music. You don't like. Just embrace it when I play it. And try to get into it. And then I'll go back to playing something you might know. And then something you don't know. So it's a good way to get some fresh air, but that is very cool. Well, thank you very much. It has been awesome to chat with you. I really Thanks for taking the time. And I hope to see you at inspiration in a box too. So we do that usually once a month, usually on the first Friday. The next one is actually going to be January 8 and that's eleven, 30 AM Eastern time. And that's again, when we put up some slides to inspire you. And we have a lot of conversation in the chat and build and yesenin and it's a lot of fun. So hopefully you can join. There and bring your team. We invite, you know, whole entire companies to join us to be inspired and just come hang out with us for about an hour. That's awesome. That's awesome. I'm working everyone else on your mind. So you're a magical dude. Dotcom is my website and the rest of my stuff is liebe zt, Instagram, Twitter, Xbox. You want to play some video games? I'm all up for it, so just let me know. I love it. Awesome Kevin Hart man. Kevin Hart all the time. Keep it going, brother. Keep it going. Oh well thank you very much. You're listening to this episode, the experience by design podcast. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter open eye global and stay tuned for more great episodes on the horizon. Thanks again.