Exploring Careers in Engineering and Science with Dr. Doreen Edwards

Welcome to Advanced Automation, a podcast by Calvary Robotics, where you'll find industry leaders and experts sharing their thoughts on the world of automation. Hello, everyone, and thanks for listening. I'm Josh Gravel, your host for this installment of Advanced Automation. With us today, we have doctor Doreen Edwards. Doctor Doreen Edwards is the Dean of the Rochester Institute of Technology's Kate Gleason College of Engineering since July of 2016. She holds a PhD in material science and engineering from Northwestern University and a BS in chemistry from the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology. Prior to joining RIT, doctor Edwards was a Dean of Engineering and acting Vice President for Statutory Affairs at Alfred University. She has served as a principal investigator on fundamental and applied research projects, focusing on oxide materials for fuel cells, batteries, thermoelectric devices, environmental remediation, and solar energy applications. She has coauthored more than sixty publications and holds two US patents. Thank you so much for joining us today, Doreen. Well, thank you, and thank you for inviting me. Yeah. So I kinda wanna start off with, maybe having you take us through your timeline and maybe your early life, and what sparked your interest in engineering? Great. Well, I grew up on a ranch in South Dakota. And so what got me into engineering was really I was attracted to the math and science courses in school. And when you like math and science courses, people tend to push you towards careers in science and engineering. There was also, a school, the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology. It was not too far, from my home, and so I was very aware of the engineering programs there. And so that's the career I took even though I did not get an engineering undergraduate degree. I got a degree in chemistry. And I can trace that interest back to my just fascination with this idea of atoms and molecules. I can remember being in the third grade, and a teacher pointed at a table, and they said, do you realize that table is filled with atoms and they're all moving at this incredible speed and they're and vibrating. And I I was just in awe of that. You know, you look at the stationary piece of furniture and this notion that there were atoms in it moving around just fascinated me. So that's that was the hook. Yeah. That's that's wild. It got you right from the beginning, the most basic of things. Right? Mhmm. So what would you say kind of your path is you were at Alfred prior to where you're at now at RIT, and before Alfred, was there What was your career? So when I got out of my bachelor's degree, I took a job at Gould Research Center in the Chicago area, and I worked there for a few years in microelectronics. And then I switched jobs, and I started working at a contract research lab that was run by Northwestern University. So I worked there for several years and, at some point, decided to go back to graduate school part time first while working, and then I went back to graduate school full time. When I got my, PhD degree, I decided I wanted to go into academia, and that's when I took the job at Alfred. Wonderful. Talk about maybe one of the biggest challenges you faced so far in your career and how you overcame it. Yeah. You know, it's kind of embarrassing. It's my career has actually been pretty easy. I I I followed I didn't have a, I followed what I loved to do. I didn't think about the future more than a couple years at a time, and I end up where where I am. But I would say that one of the the biggest challenges really was my attitude and thoughts about what I could achieve. So, you know, as I mentioned, I was a a kid who grew up on a ranch. I was we did not have any engineers in the family. I don't think I knew, a scientist or an engineer outside of maybe, science teachers in school. And so when I was a professor, you know, a few individuals started talking to me about taking on administrative roles, and I just could not see myself in that role. I had a vision that those were jobs for somebody else and not for me. And so I think the biggest challenge was really, I guess, having the confidence that I could do a job like that and then sort of shutting off my persona as a scientist in a lab and thinking of myself as an administrator. So that was, I think, my biggest challenge. That's interesting. What keeps you passionate, you know, in your field for after all these years? Yeah. So there are a couple of things. One is the potential that science and engineering has to change the lives of people. Right? So there there are a lot the world has a lot of problems, whether it is, you know, the the impact the technology has had on the planet, we have the ability to change that. We have the ability to give everyone in the world a a higher quality of life through technology. And so on one hand, that's that's one aspect that keeps me very motivated about the field in general. And then, you know, because I I'm an educator now, the other thing that keeps me very motivated and it's a lot more immediate is to just see the incredible talent that is coming up through, the college pipeline. We have students who are creative, and they're thinking about these problems and they're they're bringing a new site to age old problems. And I feel like we're in good hands with our future students who will become graduates and eventually stewards of the profession. Which is wonderful to hear. We can't wait for the next next in line, you know, to take over, if you will. In your role, I'm imagining that you have to stay on top of the ever changing technology, and it's pretty fast paced, especially nowadays. How how do you balance all that? Oh, you don't. I think that's the answer. You don't. So, I mean, I made a conscious effort a few years ago to subscribe some to some sort of list that condense news, and I will look at those and, you know, try to keep up up to date with a number of activities. But I'll tell you, it's increasingly more and more difficult. And I think what's really frustrating is just my nature is once I see something that kinda piques my interest, I really wanna learn a lot more about it, and I simply just don't have the time. So I get frustrated, you know. On Sunday morning, I'll go into the rabbit hole of the web of trying to get up to speed on some technology, and, I'll get frustrated and and move on to the next thing. Just hungry for that for more and more information. Yeah. So little time. Yeah. Yep. What are your thoughts on early education, especially STEM programs, and in particular, really for women in STEM or young girls? So, you know, it it's hard to tell what's going to attract a student to STEM. It's like I told you the story about the atoms in the table. Right? And that was something that was a a comment made from a teacher who wasn't a science teacher. And I think I think she was very uncomfortable with the concept. She was reading from a piece of paper when she was telling us about it, but yet it it got me really excited. So, you know, I think now that I've seen more more schools do more in STEM education, I'm developing some thoughts about what's good and and what's not. So I think when I was a child, you thought it was all about learning facts. Right? And I think what I've seen some educators try to do is to infuse this sense of discovery to students and to try to make it science and technology tangible to their world. I mean, that that's the the key is to getting them engaged is how how can this change your life? What how what interests you? And I think that's different for for every child. You know, you'd asked about women in STEM, and I think there's quite a bit of research out there. This is when young girls are, you know, pre middle school, young boys and young girls sort of approach it in the the same way and have the same set of interests. Where you start to see the interest diverge is when they get to middle school or junior high. And I don't have any answer for that. I mean, if I did, I would probably make a research career out of it is how how to keep young women involved, when they get to that age. Yeah. I hope that just some more emphasis and telling them as possible is this, you know, step in the right direction. Well, I think that's right too. I mean, I talked to you about, you know, sort of the you you asked me about my the challenges, that's having the confidence to take on a job. And so, you know, there are some things I can look back at that gave me that confidence. One was role models. You know, when you see other women in the sorts of roles that you're pursuing, you start you can envision yourself in that role a little more readily. And so I think that's important. We have a number of programs here at RIT where, for example, we at RIT, women in engineering at RIT, and we do a lot of k through twelve outreach. And we target middle school, in I think grades four to nine or five to nine. And all of the demonstrations are done by women college students. And so the idea is to have the the girls see these young women doing the science, explaining it, and hopefully see themselves in that role. That's wonderful. And that's a good segue for, I wanna focus now a little bit on engineering, at RIT in particular. And, Scott, if you want to give us a nice little overview of the program in general. So the college of engineering, the Kate Gleason College of Engineering educates about three thousand students. About eighty percent of those are undergrad students, and about twenty percent are graduate students. I'll focus mostly on the undergrad. So we offer seven majors, biomedical, chemical, computer, electrical, industrial, microelectronic, and mechanical engineering. And, hopefully, that add that adds up to seven. I hope I didn't miss anybody. And so our, you know, our programs, so mechanical engineering by far is our largest, and microelectronic is a very specialized program. That's our smallest, but becoming increasingly relevant because of all the the things that we're hearing about, chip shortages. So educating students in these specialized fields is is incredibly critical to our nation's economy and security. What would you say separates RIT's engineering program from other schools? Yeah. I think there are three things, and the most obvious is our co op program. All of our students are required to complete approximately one year of cooperative education length because of it. Another feature which distinguishes is a very robust, multidisciplinary senior design course. And most institutions have a capstone course or senior design course, but they often run these by major. And where ours is different is that we have most of our majors participating in it. So this, involves a team of anywhere from four to eight students from all different majors. The projects are sponsored by a client, which could be, a true client like a company, or it could be a research professor, or it could even be, nonprofit agency. We do a lot of work with nonprofits around the area. And then each team is led by a guide, and we are very fortunate to have, a large number of retired engineers who, guide, the students, and they just serve to help them. You know, they talk about their engineering experience, help keep the team on track. They're very hands off and that the work is done by the team, but they but they are truly a a guide. So that multidisciplinary senior design is another, distinguishing feature. And then the third is just the opportunities that we provide our students to engage in engineering through extracurricular or cocurricular activities. We have a dozen clubs that have an engineering focus, whether that is the formula race team or Hot Wheels, solar car team or electric vehicle, motorcycle team, or engineers for world health. I could list, the names go on and on. And our students are just passionate, about joining one of these clubs or even sometimes more than one and just immersing themselves in the creative aspects of engineering. That's great. For the co ops, do you think that there's a focus more for, like, once they're in the field and, versus in college after graduation? You know, they're they're in the field. They're doing it for the with a company. So I I think in the absence of co ops, students sort of go into the workplace and they don't exactly know what they wanna do and what they what to expect. And I I can remember doing that. I I did an internship, but it was a short internship. And when I went to work full time, I mean, there was a little bit of culture shock for him going into work full time, as a professional, scientist. So the one thing that's great about co op and multiple co ops is that students can pick these experiences to get a broad range of work experience. So they might they might work in manufacturing, they might work in design, they might work in sales. And they really get to test out what they want to do and have a clearer vision of what they wanna do going forward. And then two, I think they get to with multiple co ops, they get to experience multiple work environments. So every work environment has its own culture. And Right. I think if you only do one internship like I did, you have this you know, that's your only experience. You think, well, that's the culture that every, employer will have. Well, that's not true. And I think our program allows students to experience a lot more. How do you, you know, keep the students motivated, especially your engineering students? Well, I think, you know, I talked about these co curricular and extra curricular activities, and I think that's a huge part of it. Right? Because they're they are able to bring to these creativity above and beyond what they would be able to do in a structured classroom. And so what I see is is we have students that are just incredibly dedicated to the profession and just they immerse themselves in it. So I think that's, even though these are not required experiences, I think they're absolutely, critical and important to the student's development. How about experience first, you know, molding individuals once they're have a job? What what are your thoughts on that? Yeah. Well, this is something we always struggle with. So, you know, as educators, we reach out to our employers and say, well, you know, what kind of skills do your do our students need? What what do our graduates need to do? And, you know, you will run into some employers who give very, very specific. I need someone who does exactly what my company does. Well, it it's just not practical for us to bring that in. We talked about the you know, how technology is expanding and the it's difficult to keep up. Well, it the same goes for building a curriculum. You know, we can't possibly teach every aspect of the fields of engineering to every student. So I think, you know, what we have to do is focus on fundamentals and translational skills. You know? And so one of those, I mean, right at the top is just problem solving. How how do you tackle a generic problem? How do you bring the resources to it, and how do you solve it? So that's one. Communication skills, teamwork, all of these things, I think, are incredibly import important. Of course, we want to graduate technically competent engineers. But, again, that field have you know, we have to have some balance on what that that competency is in. And so, you know, we can look at it in terms by major, and we do get feedback. And every time I talk to employer, what I hear is the students are they're walking into it with the knowledge that they need. And where there are some needs, it really it really gets down into the specifics of either what the employer is specifically doing, and it's something that we just can't we can't do at all. Right. Right. Well, now how do you prepare a student that's very focused? They're like, I wanna do this when I got out of college. There's no bending almost. But then they end up not being able to maybe get right into what they dreamed of and, you know, their what they're planning on. Mhmm. Yeah. That's a good question. You know, I'm really seeing fewer and fewer students who are like that. Right? Who are who are coming to it with and I think it has some of it has to do with how we start the education early on, and we try to expose them to more aspects. You're you are gonna find these students who are just passionate about something, and usually their passion, carries them where they need to go. Right? I mean, they because of their enthusiasm, they do they do land in their dream jobs. So I I really I I don't see a a big problem with that. What I do see, though, is you talk to somebody after they've graduated a decade later, and they're doing something that they didn't dream of doing. And I think we all do that. Right? And so, you know, we do try to tell our students, you know, keep your eyes open for opportunity because you never know where it's gonna take you. And I think, you know, we bring alums in to talk to our students and every alum has a story of how they started, you know, in one place and ended somewhere totally different, sometimes in the field of engineering and sometimes not. And I think that opens, students' eyes to the possibilities. Right. And you obviously know Michelle Hand. And she started off here as an applications engineer and transitioned into being a business development manager. And then I know she's talked to this whole idea of keeping things open, and then knowing that whatever you might have learned can then help you in the next phase. So I think And this is why, you know, a general education is so important to be coupled with the technical requirements. I mean, one thing I do see is I do see see students coming in and they go, why do I have to take gen ed courses? Why can't I just go do engineering? That's what I wanna do. And, you know, hopefully, we're doing a good job of explaining to them all why you might need this and how you apply it and how it's this gen general education coupled with your technical knowledge. It's really gonna allow you to seize on these opportunities. Right. Now currently, we're facing skilled labor shortage in the US. How would you say RIT, maybe in education and grand scheme is is combating that? Yeah. So, you know, it depends on what you define as skilled labor. So, I mean, certainly, at RIT, we are focused on students that are prepared at the bachelor's level. And I and I think what you're referring to is more of folks who are getting associate degrees and, you know, skilled in fabrication techniques and and the like. So, you know, there so one of the ways that we do it is we do outreach. And when we do K-12 outreach, we don't always just hit on, you know, come to college and get a bachelor's degree. We do expose them to our, machine shop and our fabrication tools, and we do a lot of demos that range from more of the the hands on rather than the theoretical side of technology and engineering. So that's one way that we do it. We do have strong partnerships, with some two year institutions. So there are folks who might go through an associate's degree and wanna go on to a bachelor's degree. We have some faculty who are doing research that's very much focused on bringing technology, things like artificial intelligence, machine learning into the skilled trades, and how can they be used to either train individuals or to provide, additional, I guess, feedback on the processes. So, you know, we see ourselves as a, a part of this a solution to to this problem, but but we're not on the front lines with educating skilled tradesmen. Alright. What would your solution be, or how would you help, do you think, to combat this skills shortage, labor shortage? Like, how do you think the US in general should handle it? Yeah. You know, I've seen a I I've seen a a range of things that happens. Well, what you know, one is the message we send to students. Right? And and it's to try and I'm talking pre college students. Right? Right. And to make sure that we don't undervalue the importance of skilled trades. Right? So, you know, at some point, there there was a message that you, you know, you have to go get a four year degree. Right? And so a lot of students walk, away with that knowledge. And I think there are a lot of groups that are also saying, or there are two year degrees and that these are very, great these are good careers, and they may be you may be more interested in them. So I think it's telling students that all these pathways are possible and it's individual choice, and each of these pathways has value. So that's that's one piece at the very early age. When you get to the point of someone graduating from high school, the reality is is that some people, can't afford to go on, and get college education. Right? And so I know that there are there are some industries who have act or doing schools to help train, skilled workers within their facilities, and they provide them a wage when they're doing it. I think I I really do think that has a lot of benefit is providing I I don't know if you call them apprenticeships. I'm not I'm not that familiar with the work, but I think providing individuals a way to, get exposed to the technology while still earning a living, I think is a critical piece to that. Great. Sort of a big question, I suppose, but what are your thoughts on automation? I love it. That's good to hear. So yeah. I I seriously, I think there are so many interesting things happening and new advances in automation in terms of how artificial intelligence and machine learning will be combined with automation, how the workplace will be transformed by humans in the loop working with collaborative robots. I I think there's there are we're on somewhat of a a revolution in the workplace due to automation. And I think there are just a lot of exciting things. It's, it presents the need for individuals to have an expanded work set. It's not gonna be the same as it was twenty years ago and thirty years ago. So I think there's a lot of room, for techno technology improvement, a lot of room for educating individuals with new skills. So I think it's an exciting time. I agree. So why Rochester? You know, why you know, living here, working here, and some of your other favorite aspects are interesting. Well, so I moved to Rochester in twenty sixteen, and I absolutely love it. And, you know, some of the reasons are is it's just the size of the city. It's manageable. I lived in Chicago for years, and, I mean, something as simple as I wanna take a flight somewhere else. You know, when I lived in Chicago, you know, getting to the airport and the time to get on that plane is just amazing. And and here, it's just so accessible. Right? So you can and it's also so accessible that, you know, I can live in the country, which I do, and be downtown in twenty minutes and be enjoy and enjoying all of the cultural aspects that Rochester has to offer, whether it's, you know, music or restaurants or galleries. All of that is just so accessible in such a short period of time. Summers are great. You know? Winters? I have to agree with you there. Yeah. So How about giving advice to a younger Doreen? What what would you say to yourself? You know, I think, again, have more confidence in your in yourself. I I think that was the number one. And and, you know, you don't know what you don't know. Right? And I think that's for any any, that's advice to anybody younger is you don't know what you don't know and to be open to experience. And and I think I was for the most part. So, you know and but I think that's it. Just have more confidence in yourself. Good. Tell us something that's the one of the most exciting or new things that's happening currently with RIT and the engineering department? Well, you know, one of the most exciting things that's happened at RIT is, goes beyond engineering, but it's gonna impact engineering in a big way. And we are building a new central facility that's gonna be this huge maker space that's open to all students. So it's, it's called The Shed. So and I hope I get this right. It's the student hall for exploration and development. I hope I got that right. But, you know, it's somewhat ironic because it's this giant beautiful building, and we're gonna call it the shed. But within it, it is gonna be this gigantic maker space with all sort of digital digital fabrication technologies, whether it's three d printing or CNC machining. There'll also be some manual machine equipment. We will be moving many of our student clubs into this so that they can have access to this great equipment and collaborate. And it's even gonna have a black box theater, so it's not gonna be just about science and technology, but it's also going to have a place for people to explore the performing arts. And then it's gonna have, a lot of new classrooms and very modern classroom spaces. So that's the big news on RIT's campus. Within engineering, what I'm really excited about is we launched three new PhD programs. And so our students have a pathway from the bachelor's through the master's to the PhD in almost every discipline that we offer. And so we're seeing incredible, research in areas, ranging from materials and semiconductor devices through machine learning and artificial intelligence to energy and the environment. And I'm just touching on some of those. So lots of, good things will be coming out of our college in the next few years. Sounds really exciting. I can't wait to take a tour and see some of that. How about where do you see the field of engineering going? What what are your predictions? Yeah. So one of the things that I think we will see is just an increase in the interdisciplinarity and multidisciplinarity linearity of engineering. So, you know, right now, students come in and they take a major. I, you know, I'm gonna be a mechanical engineer. I'm gonna be an electrical engineer. Well, if we just take something like mechanical engineering, a lot of students are attracted to it because of the automotive aspect or, you know, trains, planes, and automobiles is a is a lot of what will get or robotics will get students interested in mechanical engineering. Well, it's not just about the mechanical part of it. It's also, in order to be on the cutting edge, they have to be interested in the electrical and the computer engineering part of it. And I think those lines between disciplines are going to become more and more fuzzy, and our graduates are gonna have to be more and more adept at working across disciplinary lines, and it's gonna extend not only from engineering, but into other disciplines as well. So I think that will be an interesting part of what we see in the in the field in general. And, you know, the thing we always have to keep in mind is we're educating students for jobs that don't exist today. Right? Even though it may be called engineering, the the engineering that I was almost sounds impossible, but we know in practice it is not. Yeah. Yeah. And I may be exaggerating a little bit. It's not you know, the fundamentals are still there, but it's, knowing how to selectively prune and grow, what the academic experience is. Right. Jack and Jills of all trades kind of thing. Yeah. What what is the as we wrap up here, what is the best way for our listeners to get in touch with you? Best way to get in touch with me is email. And you you can Google me, or I'll just give it to you. It's two d's, three e's, and a n, at r I t dot edu. Wonderful. Well, is there anything you wanna add as we close out, Doreen? No. I just, other than to thank you for this opportunity to talk to you and to share a little bit about, my personal experience and about RIT. I greatly appreciate it. Yeah. Well, being a neighbor of Calvary's right in the Rochester area, I think it's great for us to connect and for our listeners to hear more about everything RIT has to offer. And I thank you for your time. I think that's about it for us today. Thanks for listening, everyone. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you. Goodbye.