Hey there, everyone. It's Daniel Litwin, the voice of b to b coming at you from the Irving Convention Center here for Charge Expo twenty twenty four where we're talking all things EV charging and the larger EV infrastructure ecosystem. I'm joined today by doctor Jason Huang, he's CEO of TS conductor. Doctor. Huang, great to have you on. How are you doing today? Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here. Yeah. You've had a long day already. Already hit your keynote speech early in the day, your your panel session. And so I'm glad that, you're able to give us some time here to give us more context on the role that TS conductor is playing. In this larger mission towards developing, EV infrastructure at scale across the US. So why don't you give our audience a little context on what TS conductor does. Alright? The role it plays in this larger ecosystem. Yeah. Thank you. TS conductor is a developer and manufacturer of advanced conductors. Why conductor is important for the energy transition? When you think about energy transition or climate change, we have to convert all these fossil fuels out with renewable. And the energy consumption today in society we only have one third of the energy in the form of electricity. The other two third had to be converted into electricity. In order to do the energy transition. On the other hand, the energy for today and in the future needs to be renewable. Instead of the old fossil burning power plant, energies. All of that is going to be done through the power grid. Because we have to, connect the power generation, the renewable power generation to the consumption. Like the UV, for example, you are taking electrons. Right. The electron moves from the solar farms or wind farms or hydro power facility to the EV through the power grid. And that's where the conductor comes in. To a large extent, our power grid around the world are still very much dominated by Century or conductor technology. Which has very limited capacity. And we're looking at whether you are looking at Princeton Report, which calls for three x capacity, And the distribution side is also affected as well, which is connecting to the EV charging directly. We have to do a major upgrade in our power grid infrastructure to facilitate the transition to, for example, EVs, in the coming years. So you mentioned not only are we dealing with century old conductor infrastructure, but also pressure for at least a three x development in capacity. Which poses, I imagine quite a challenge, a lift for coordination across different, industries, right, to build out retrofit and maintain that infrastructure. What are some of the challenges around coordinating those various stakeholders today? Where are you seeing that there are some gaps in communication or maybe a lack of, a lack of emphasis or priority around that specific slice of infrastructure that's obviously in need of some retrofits. Yeah. First off, the technologies that the utilities are rely on the conductors that were developed where over a century ago. That technology cannot get us to where we need to be. Right. For new technologies to be embraced broadly and quickly deployed by our industry. That's been a challenge. Our industry is a conservative one. Move slow. Utilities is also a lead by design. Indeed. Utilities do not have to compete or innovate the way private industry does. That explains partly why we're still primarily relying on CenturyO technology. For new technology to quickly get adopted in a broad manner We do need to come together in in terms of partnerships, companies like TS that provides technology innovation, utilities, that operates the grid. And also, I would say, regulators and policy makers so that everybody can come together advocating adoption of new technology and accelerate the adoption of this type of technology. And now on top of that, you know, there's obviously been some recent pushes, from the federal level in terms of funding and major programs to revitalize our infrastructure in preparation for mass EV charging, and infrastructure. Again, at scale, would you say that that conversation around where to apply the funds has enough focus on that slice of the infrastructure, pie, I guess you would say. And, if so, great. What's helping motivate that? And if not, how do you encourage that we, you know, guide some of that conversation towards revitalizing that part of the infrastructure? Yeah. I think the, infrastructure bill that was passed, two years ago, it has done some significant help. For starting the power grid upgrade. Sure. The Ira money on the other hand did not really address the need for grid upgrade because most of the money is actually going to renewable developers Gotcha. Battery technologies. When you look at grid, there is the transmission side, which is a high voltage and also the distribution circuit Right. Which is actually connecting to the charge stations directly. We need upgrades in both areas. There's far more distribution lines than the transmission lines. Right. And Whether we're looking at two x or three x upgrade, there's a lot of work that had to be done. Yeah. You can do it by doing new lines which will take you ten to twenty years. Yeah. Or you can do it by leveraging existing rights of way perhaps existing infrastructure as well, like the towers and the poles by just swapping out the conductors of the old with advanced conductors like TS. Now you have the potential to double or triple the line capacity. On the structures in the existing rights of way. Frankly, that is also the cheapest and fastest way to get us where we need to be in affordable manner and also in a time sensitive manner as well. And I think you really hit on something important there is that when we talk about these major lifts, like, time to completely renew our national grid, the baby steps of that can feel sometimes hard to conceive of because the big picture lift is so daunting. And so it's good to hear that there is some focus on strategy around where the first, not only kind of, low cost but also fast deployment upgrades we can make that will substantially improve our existing infrastructure and set a new foundation to build on top of for more holistic retrofits. If you have to, you know, think strategically about that, What are some other areas where you think the larger industry could invest in some short term, but high ROI infrastructure retails, reinvestments, etcetera, that will create those kinds of domino effects, and lay fresh foundations to invest a little more money into. Yeah. When you look at technologies like TS, by the way Yeah. We can not only triple the line capacity, we can also reduce line loss by half. Interesting. Okay. The loss in the distribution circuit, which connects to the EV charging stations is actually quite high compared to the transmission side. We can effectively leverage the line loss saving by deploying advanced connectors like TS to pay or subsidize the cost associated with grid upgrade Nice. If we focus on re conducting, for example, when we say re conducting, we're basically looking at swapping the conductors out leaving structures in place, leaving taking advantage of the existing rights of way. Right. That is, frankly, the highest ROI the fastest way of getting the capacity to the grid and facilitate the UV, translations. Right. Now, speaking of, you know, this slice of the infrastructure revitalization plan, and its impact on the coming EV infrastructure. I'm curious if you've seen whether any regional markets here in the US or any international markets that have taken on this strategy and done it well into what effect, right, of upgrading, the transmission lines, upgrading conductor equipment. And doing so to help facilitate mass EV infrastructure development. Where are you seeing that already occur and to what effect. Right? And what can we learn from that here for the US? Yeah. I think you are hearing a lot more focus on the transmission lines. Yeah. You know, we need to upgrade the transmission lines. We need to have permit, reforms so that we are able to build new lines faster. We haven't really started to see the focus on the distribution side of the circuit as well. Okay. You know, you have technologies lectius that are available that not only works well in the transmission grid upgrade, but also works well in the distribution side. So they are more focused and there are more progress on the transmission side. Interesting. But the work only distribution side is equally urgent. Yeah. The important as well. In, you know, in states like California, the adoption of the UV vehicles are much faster. Yeah. Probably because the gasoline price Yeah. In the states of California are a lot higher. Yes, sir. And it makes economic sense for people to move to electric vehicles. Sure. And and, you know, that helps, the energy transition. Well. Or at least it's a wash. You know, it's about the same. I might as well get the cool new EV. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So then, are you saying that that's kind of the trend internationally then too that distribution infrastructure upgrades are just kinda lagging behind everywhere and need a little bit more focus, or do we see any market anywhere where we've seen distribution upgrades happen. Again, whether locally or internationally, that, you know, have have benefited and created this starting of a domino effect to encourage other infrastructure developments. Do are there any examples we can point to? I've traveled to Asia. Last couple of weeks, as you can. And and you actually see a lot more EV adoptions in places like in China Yeah. You know, each country is different. Yeah. For sure. The utility infrastructure or the system are also different as well. You know, we have a very regulated industry like the utility. They're fully regulated. So the policy side do come into play in terms of how fast we're moving forward and how how policies are in place that motivates the adoption or transition related to, electric vehicle adoptions, for example. Right. So there there, you know, there's no kind of, boilerplate solutions. Right. So I'm gonna be different for region. Yeah. Yeah. But I also recognize I was at the Cup twenty eight, you may Nice. Yeah. You have people of different political spectrum coming together, you know, trying to solve humanity problem. Yeah. This is not, you know, a country problem or a political party problem. This is a humanity problem. You don't see debates anymore about whether climate change is happening. It is. We had the warmest temperature on record in twenty twenty three. Our Earth is also losing about four hundred billion tonne ice every year. We do not have unlimited time. To address climate change. Right? At the same time, our customers, the ratepayers are also very sensitive about cost of energy, including cost of renewable energy. Yes. Indeed. Electricity as well. So we have to do energy transition with a sense of urgency and also do it affordably as well. And so You know, obviously, there's always gonna be a little bit of that friction between, you know, market forces, seeing opportunity, and also understanding, you know, the, sometimes the urgency of applying some of these upgrades But then sometimes the policy infrastructure side of it is just gonna move a little slower, and there, you know, needs to be a little more congruent among those to, ecosystems. And so, I'm curious where you're seeing, you know, major conversations and advocacy from the industry to policy makers to legislators, to help encourage a faster adoption of these infrastructure repairs. And, you know, any advice there for our audience on how to tribute to and help motivate some of those conversations. Yeah. Or just try some examples. Yeah. In Europe, in the power grid sector, utilities are starting to pay attention to transformers. Yeah. Encouraging the use of a motionless metal in transformers because they are a little bit more efficient than the old way of doing transformers. But when you put it in perspective, the transformer related loss, pales compared to the loss related to conductors in transmission and distribution lines. Right. We have also, as society, paid a lot of attention to efficiency, in the consumption side of electricity. Like our homes, for example, in the kitchen. Right? Yeah. We're making our microwaves dishwashers much more in efficient. We have energy star ratings. We've also made a lot of progress on the generation side solar panels are becoming more efficient. Wind turbines are becoming much bigger so that you can capture the wind much more effective way. Yeah. But we haven't paid attention to the big piece in the metal, which is the grid efficiency in the grid itself. And mentioned about recondactoring. We actually can leverage technology like TS to pay for the re conducting cost. In a matter of just a few years, if we are able to fully monetize the line loss savings, And I look at line loss saving as a green dividend. Interesting. It is made available by a green conductor technology like TS. And that reduced loss is available to you every hour, every day, every month, every year. So it's like a dividend you get paid. Right. And we need to, on the policy side, be a little bit more forward thinking, And that may require legislations. That may require regulators like FERC and PUCs to be more proactive. And the utilities, be more proactive as well, you're advocating policies mechanisms that benefit the rate pair, which reduces the system cost, but also address capacity constraint at the same time benefit the environment as well because you are using you know, more renewable energy and you are doing it cost effectively as well. And look, I think you bring up a great point too that a lot of times, the major motivator for these conversations comes down to the dollar amount. Right? Are we gonna see cost reductions? And so I really like that idea. I think leaning on the narrative of the green dividend. Right? The way that these kinds of investments will immediately create cost savings that can be reapplied, and that you can almost begin to stack as new areas of funding to redeploy towards other infrastructure developments, towards, you know, coordination with other major stakeholders and developing example, EV infrastructure and EV charging, is is the right play. And it's probably going to help create more conversation and more action too. So when you see, wow, we get to save that much immediately year over year and can reapply towards this sector or, you know, this initiative, Alright. Let's let's move that through. Let's make it happen. So I I I like that analysis a lot. That's great. Alright. Doctor Huang. I think that's all we've got time for today, I wanna let you go ahead and, point, our audience to TSonductor. Folks wanna find out a little bit more about the work y'all are doing. They wanna get in touch. Where can they find out more about you and your company's work? Yeah. Thank you very much. You can find out more information about TSonductor from our website. W w w dot t s conductor dot com. We're on a journey as humanity. We have to work together. Find solutions to climate change. And we also do not have unlimited time. We have to partner together utilities technology developers and providers like TS regulators that includes legislation and FERC or PUC and repairs. If we all come together and unleash the potential, full potential from technology, we can get it done. We can address the challenge in front of humanity. I love it. Well, I'm excited to see all of the great collaboration that TS conductor is going to initiate and participate in this year. We'll definitely be in touch for some updates. So thank you again, doctor Quong. Thank you everyone for tuning in. This is Daniel Litwin, the voice of b to b. Stay tuned for more interviews here from Charge Expo twenty twenty four.
