The Evolution of Vari and Rebranding Workspace Innovation

Berry covers everything. It is a lifestyle. It is a way to live and operate and work and you're just making life so much better for people in the workspace and at home. Hello everyone. I'm Daniel Litwin, voice of B2B. And I'm Tyler Kern. And you're watching Market Scale Mornings. There we go. Wow. We crushed that intro. And it's a beautiful day out and folks we have one of the most exciting interviews that we've had on Market Scale Mornings to date. Even more exciting, Tyler's finally back in the studio. You've been out of office a lot on shoots and on content creation, but we're excited to get you right back next to me. I'm excited to be here. Clearly that's the biggest news in the That definitely, definitely. Yeah. But folks, we are really excited for a through thread of a lot of different thematic points for today's conversation. We're going to be chatting about layouts in the modern workplace. We're going to be talking about a changing workforce, tips for corporate rebranding, and just high level c suite conversations. It's going to be a great, great time today. I'm really pleased to welcome our guests. We're going to cut right to the meat and potatoes. We're chatting with Jason McCann. He's the CEO of Very, formerly known as Veridesk. So we're going to be breaking down that rebrand along with a lot of other stuff. Jason, so great to have you in. How are doing today? Oh, I'm doing great today. Thanks for having me out. Gorgeous day to be here. Know. So I'm loving it. Before we started the conversation, you said this was all you're doing. I will. We did that. So we're excited for you guys and the view is incredible and your space is awesome. So love meeting you with team. Excited to talk today. Folks, just to give you a little context on how successful Very, formerly known as VeryDesk, is. Its products are in over ninety eight percent of Fortune five hundred workplaces. The company won Ernst and Young's Entrepreneur of the Year in twenty seventeen and has been named one of Dallas's top ten best places to work. Hey, mean if you're transforming the workplace, good to know that very itself is also a good place to That's right. Get the people and the culture. Oh yeah, totally. One hundred percent. Well Jason, I'm really looking forward to picking your brain on all this. Let's start really high level and look at changes in the modern workforce and workplace because I think that helps tell the story for how Very fits into transforming that workplace as well. So whether we're talking about demographics, type of careers, the technology that we use, what are some trends that you see changing the modern workplace today? Yeah, you think about it, you've almost got four generations that are working inside of corporate America. So you've got all these CEOs out there trying to recruit and retain amazing talent. They don't wanna alienate that generation of workers that's got all this incredible knowledge, but the next generation of workers that's coming in, they need to recruit them. And how do they create workspaces that really work for them? So those are a lot of the changes that are going on in the workplace today. It's really how do you attack all those different generations of workers. Interesting. So that blend is probably hard to maneuver sometimes, especially because, like you said younger generations are growing up a little more attuned to technology or at least just to tools and how they interface with a workflow. How have you found an educational component maybe to try to get everyone on the same page? And how do you see those different demographics in the workforce influencing workflows and the work place itself, layout or Yeah. When we talk to the CEOs out there and they're like, I'm trying to recruit and retain talent. Need a learning workforce, and I'm trying to really constantly think about the culture and the people. So I wanna elevate my workforce and continue to get that next generation of talent to come in. How do I share that? So what they're starting to think about is can I have a workspace? It's almost like a canvas that ebbs and flows as my business needs change. So I'm sharing technology, sharing ideas, areas for collaboration, but then we also know there's a lot of introverts in the workspace, so they need areas of privacy. So me space and we space become very big conversations in the workspace today. Interesting. Yeah. That's that's really interesting. And I guess one of the things that that I think about is that as businesses think through, okay, how can we best lay out our workspace that that works for us? Doesn't that communicate a level of value to employees, right, which is also important to retention. That if CEOs and high level people are thinking, okay, how can I best meet the needs of my employees? That at least communicates on some level that that CEO cares about the employees and that matters in today's day. Absolutely. You've walked into an office where you just feel the buzz. Like when I walked in today, you feel people are happy, they're smiling, things are going on, business is happening. You've also been into spaces where the energy is wrong. And what you get a sense of if people care about the workspace, that means the CEOs and the executives care about creating that right space that really is so that I can be productive. I can make an impact as an individual. And I know that my business wants them to make an impact. It's all driven by how is the space and the leadership communicating the values of the organization. So it's a blend of getting all those little details right as you think about creating the right workspace for employees. So how do you, in particular, like to try to keep up with trends and what's going on in the workplace? What people want? Is it through surveys? Is it just visiting a lot of offices? How are you staying on top of things when it comes to workplace trends and what people are looking for? Yeah, there's a blend of qualitative and quantitative data out there. So there was all this research out there that said, Hey, the number one perk was we want to put a sit stand desk in every office. That came out a couple of years ago saying there's a huge trend towards getting health and wellness right and activity in the workspace. There's also things, you know, qualitatively you walk in, you start to feel the energy of a space and you talk to CEOs and they say I'm struggling with my space because it's never allowed me to move I've got an old cube farm and it's impossible to change. But our strategy is changing our business. So it helped us listen to our fans and create new product ideas around creating workspaces that actually move. So picture walls that move and furniture that moves. So as your business needs change, you change. Just like y'all have expanded here in your space as your business has grown, other businesses are trying to figure that out as well. So CEOs that get that and leaders that get that are starting to think about how has this created the workspace of the future. You mentioned fans. Don't let me forget that because I wanna come back around to that aspect of how you perceive your clients and growing that brand awareness and brand buy in. But to the flexible workspace, why do you feel like that trend is the one that is winning out today? What about the way we work is encouraging or almost forcing the need for a physically flexible workplace and also one that is, I guess, a little more figuratively flexible as well. Yeah. Well, you think about it, work and life are so integrated. I think Jeff Bezos described it as work life harmony and finding that. So work can happen anywhere. And so whether I'm working remote, I've now got access on my phone or my laptop and I can drop into a Starbucks or a co working space and work or I can work at the corporate office. Work is happening all the time and it's happening globally in twenty four hours a day. Businesses are no longer just four or five people in office. They're global enterprises or they're working with global entities. So to have spaces that can now change and transform and people and have access to communication ways all throughout that allows, you know, thinking about the workspace of the future. So we've been able to go into great companies. You even talked to an awesome company like Google that's a client of ours. They've got sixty five thousand people at one of their main campuses. Forty thousand move every year to another location. Well, all businesses are thinking about, yeah, we're now on a development cycle and an agile framework. We're working on a new project for a two week sprint, and then we're off to the next assignment. That's really the workspace of the future. And so just thinking about tools that allow people to be successful in that is very important. So you mentioned something just people working remotely. That's been a growing trend. Right? Do you view that as a challenge for the growth of Vary moving forward, Or do you view that as an opportunity to continue to create workspaces that, you know, match the value of what people get at home, you know, that when they come into the corporate I look at it as a seamless and totally an opportunity. You As a CEO, you want to create a workspace where people can have the most impact. You want to create a space they want to be at and work at. But when they need to work remote, it'd be great if there were tools in their personal workspace or in other areas remote where they had access to the right tools. So for us, we're developing programs for clients for their headquarters as well as the remote workers. And so our business model is saying, hey, what are we learning in the workspace that works for a client for the teams to collaborate? And when they need that me time and maybe they're working a remote or at home, we've got solutions for that about thinking about, so they're not just sitting at the kitchen table. It's like, what else could we do to help have a positive impactful space decentralized? So it's really a very forward thinking way. So I look at it as a total opportunity and we're learning every day with all these great clients. Totally. It's interesting before you monetize this idea of flexible office amenities and growing that out now where Vary is really providing full solutions for the modern workplace, you were bringing a certain sense of how can I make my office space that I lead and in your previous companies reflect something greater, something that really speaks to company culture or the flexibility of my workforce? So talk a little bit about when you were running companies before Vary. How did you craft that blend of amenities reflecting company culture and embedding company culture in the physical layout of your space? And what were some of the lessons you learned as you kind of crafted that mentality that now puts you leading Barry? Yeah, so I was leading another company called Gemi Industries. And so Gemi is the leading maker of those big inflatables you see on people's yards for Halloween and Christmas. LED lighting, even the singing big mouth Billy Bass fish that came Yes. Yes. And so, but that was a culture built on innovation and really delivering that innovation. So to create a space that started moving. So we started to test ideas there. As a leader, I wanted to have an environment where my employees didn't walk in and for the next five years, they were going to be in the same space. And so the idea of creating a space that moves, just like when you move the furniture in your house, suddenly it feels a little different. So little details like that we started to test. As I walked into, I remember walking into a Shangri La Hotel in Hong Kong. And if you walk into those hotels, the smell that you get, the energy of the space. So we started adding scent machines in the lobby, in our showroom experience. We said health and wellness matter. Let's build an on-site gym. Let's put towels and showers in the space. Let's do it like a Marriott hotel with the shampoo involved. It's already started to learn one step at a time over the last years of just getting better and better, but it's about taking care of the employees. Dry cleaning service so they can drop off and pick up their stuff. Taking all the friction points out, putting in an iced coffee bar. You don't have to stop at Starbucks. You can get a cappuccino right there in the lobby. So all those elements were ideas that we took in to vary and have now started to it for ourselves. And now as clients walked into our headquarters on tours, they said, can you do all of this for us? And so that's been the next chapter of our journey is to now transform other people's spaces based upon what we're learning. Right. Going from the desk to that full workplace solution. I love that. I love that. And, you know, it's interesting to see how some of those little amenity changes that go a long way to push, a great experience for a workforce in their office has evolved to okay well we need to make sure that the literal desk that they work at every single day has that same flexibility, has that sense of okay this responds to my needs. Is that something that when you were crafting the idea initially was that something that you heard from others that it's like I wish my desk did this or I wish that I felt like I could come in and work in a kind of slightly different environment every day because it just it sucks out my creative energy or is it something that you were basically leading the conversation on that kind of change in the workplace? Yeah, think initially it was, we were addressing my partner Dan's back pain. So it was really literally monetizing pain. He's saying, I'm standing in a cardboard box. That became the idea for the first product. And as we got into the furniture industry, we realized there's a lot of pain in just buying furniture. It's a very painful process. The industry is set up like the automotive industry with a handful of manufacturers, a thousand dealers. It's a very painful process. We said, oh, we can build a model like Tesla. We can sell our product direct. And again, alleviating pain. And as we got into workspace, we said, for the employee themselves, they do wanna sit stand desks. There was obviously over three million people now that use our original product. But then they were thinking about, I need my entire space to work for me. And so we started doing full desks that go up and then conference tables and standing meetings. You know, Richard Brantz and others say, hey, standing meetings matter. So we did high top tables and why don't we do soft seating so you can sit down and lounge. Then it just became this process where we started to watch our clients react positively to the product and that flywheel effect is now kicked in and we're doing offices all over the country and now some all over the world. So it's been an incredible journey. Absolutely. So there have been studies that have come out that have said things, you know, sitting is the new smoking, right? Right. How Right. I guess how much do you feel like if VeryDesk could come out twenty years ago as opposed when it did, that people wouldn't be ready for it at that time. And how much do you think that just the atmosphere is right? Like people want flexible workspaces. You just kind of fit right now in the way that people view the modern office space. And with these studies coming out and people being a little bit more health conscious and that sort of thing, how much do you think that that really helped contribute to just launching you guys into the stratosphere? Yeah. Kent, we got very lucky. I mean, standing desks have been around for fifty plus years. There's been famous people that have written on standing desks. You look at old school desk photos of kids, they actually stood at almost drafting tables in school classrooms. But in the last fifty years, we just became this sedentary life and everything's got to sit down and the chairs are so comfy like a lazy boy. It just shifted our mindset. Yeah. And so for us to go in and when we started our very first prototype, Dan and I were flying over to Asia sharing a newspaper. And that's when Doctor. Levine of the Mayo Clinic had coined the term sitting disease and sitting is a new smoking. We said, this is a sign from God, we're onto something here. So we got lucky to get us initially. So we were able to drive awareness through our advertising to really create a movement that said sitting, you know, you can stand while working and it's worked. And now to think about the flexible workspace, we just recognize there's a huge opportunity to help clients listen to what they need as they think about their business needs changing. And so again, think we're on the very early stages of the future of workspace. What is possible versus a traditional cube farm and sheet rock, and it's just stuck for the next ten years here forever versus what could it be? And so you go into a maker space like AT and T Foundry, you go into the Google or Facebook headquarters. It's incredible when you see the energy of the space. And so I do believe we're creating the products that will help all companies create environments like that. And it's just a learning process that we're going through. So you guys had obviously an incredible idea. You hit at the right time, but it still comes down execution, right? What do you feel like you did well in those, you know, those early years and those first few steps that you took that really helped kind of form the company and launch it off to be such a great success? Yeah, always say ideas are easy and execution is very hard. And so, I've gone bust before, I recognize it takes a tremendous amount of grit. So we went out and just showed clients, you know, our first client was Verizon and we showed, happened to know somebody that let us show the first product, got feedback from customers at the time. And we showed the container showers our second, and they gave us feedback and we tweaked the product based upon their feedback. We listened and learned very fast. We got really lucky. We were sitting on an airplane and said, wouldn't it be great if we did an ad in SkyMall magazine? So we placed an ad in SkyMall because you're always trapped there. This is, you know, and it became the number one selling item in SkyMall's history. Love it. So it's just, we got a little lucky, but we worked very hard and we listened to our customers. By listening, because the beauty of today is you get all this great feedback, good and the bad. And so if you listen to the bad and you thank yourself for the good and you're blessed to get it, but you take the bad and you learn from it and building that relationship with that fan ultimately is the success of the business. Before we move on to the VeriDesk two Veri transformation, you know you talk about the workplace twenty years ago might not have been the pivotal moment where the Veridesse could take off. Now we're kind of seeing, okay, let's transform the workplace to make it more flexible. The cubes are not really fostering creativity. They're not fostering collaboration. Do you feel like the pendulum might swing too far in the other direction to where the workspace gets so fluid that now we have to kind of, okay, let's backtrack a little bit. Let's see what did work from the classic segmented workplace. And how are you seeing your products reflect that a little bit? I guess how you having the foresight maybe to see how the workplace is going to continue to shift? Yeah, and so I think what we're doing is working with clients based upon their needs and we design a space for them, but it doesn't, it's not just totally open. So we have walls that move. And so you picture we can create space for you to work if you just need to focus into a focus pod and can drop in there and work. Right. And then there's open areas for collaboration. But the beauty is by listening over time, we can tweak the space and adjust it. So we're now positioning and thinking about space as a service. So as your business needs change and you say, hey, we're about to expand, what is possible? And we try things and you get in, we have clients move into their space and like, oh, it's not working. And the beauty is we can now change it. In the past, once you put up Sheetrock in a cube farm, you're trapped. Right. With this, you actually get in there and you sit down and you try it and can we work next to each other or no? Or this month, we need to work on a project together and next month we're working on different teams. So it's an iterative process and that's never been possible before in yesterday's furniture. So I think us thinking about this canvas that we're creating for clients is really gonna be a beautiful thing, but it's not about just being totally open. So I agree with you, the pendulum is moving, but it's about a space that will evolve over time. And so as your needs change, the space will cater to that. It's not about the open space, it's about a flexible space. Truly flexible. It. So we've obviously been talking about the workplace as a whole, not just focusing on desks. And that's because that's not all that you guys do. But for a long time, I think people just associated the name because it had desk in it. Like, oh, they make the sit stand desk. Like, that's just that's what they do. But now you guys are going through a rebrand. We actually have a clip of you talking to Damon John just about that and how your product offering is much more vast than the the name of the rebrand is gonna reflect that now. So let's run that clip real quick. You know, companies like you, and and we love to work with companies like you because I'm so busy trying to solve problems in my own damn company. Yeah. Let you solve the other problems. You know what I mean? In my company like space and and and maximization and how people can stay healthy and how people can bright lights, open areas, and privacy at the same time. I love what you're doing. It's about time that the world knows you offer way more than desk. And that's why I love the fact that Berry covers everything because it is way more than that. It is a lifestyle. It is a way to live and operate and work, and you're just making life so much better for people in the workspace and at home. I I mean Awesome. Awesome. I mean, Damon is incredible. What a what an awesome entrepreneur to work with for us as a fan and so it's been a lot of fun. And you guys have the same stylist obviously. That's right. I get my style, know, Fubu, he did teach me how to dress a little better. So it was nice that Damon was kind enough to yeah. He's got the Nike hat. Yeah. Yeah. It's all good. Radiates that swag. I love it. I get so, like, when you had the name desk in the name, right? It was very desk. People associated it with that product, obviously. But now you're going by very, just v a r I. What do you hope people associate with Vari? What does Vari stand for now? If VariDesk obviously represented the desk, what does Vari stand for now and what do you hope people think of when they hear the name? Yeah, so Vari is a workspace innovation company. And so we started with the Veradesk. And so that product will still be called a Veradesk. We've got over three million users of it. So it's almost like Kleenex or Coca Cola where people know it for what it is. Yeah. But elevating our vision, I've got over two hundred products today. So we've got walls and LED lights and soft seating and standing conference tables. So we're really a workspace innovation company. So this allows us to elevate. And we went out there and similar companies went like Federal Express became FedEx and just thinking about what is a great way. So as we tested and started to talk to fans, they go, you're very, you're much more, you're much bigger than that. You're really creating these flexible workspaces of the future. So a workspace innovation company. Yeah. And, you know, I think even if you were operating similarly with a diverse set of products just changing the name I think really communicates a difference from just being a product supplier. And it's like look you come to us you buy the product but now it's very you know we are trying to step away from just being a product supplier. We are a full solutions company. We are here to consult, to provide and to help you find that right energy, that right workflow. I mean it's a kind of a higher level service that you now provide to your fans like you were saying not clients, your fans. How does that change the business model or the mindset when you are interfacing with clients and they perceive you as, oh, I'm getting something more than just a product. I'm getting a full solutions provider. How does that change your approach and the company's approach? Yeah, it's been incredible. Once we realize that people want a direct relationship with us, I didn't envision that we would get to do all these things. And so now to provide workplace strategy and design services on the front end for clients to come in and then transform and literally we come in and set up all the furniture for free for clients and they come in and experience it and then really a space as a service model, I can come in every three to six months and as your business needs change, change your space for you. And now we're even elevating the brand and buying buildings under VeriSpace. And so we're going into entire buildings because clients say, hey, just want to walk in and have a fully furnished solution. And you almost operate just like a space as a service model and take all of the pain away from me. I just walk in and it's done turnkey. That's even the evolution of the brand. So it's great for us to start with Veradesk, elevate our vision to vary and create you know really workspace in this whole innovation company and now with Verispace to create space as a service model. Well even even just that aspect of clients coming to you asking for a fully fledged vision, I'm sure that adds a new layer to your workforce and the kinds of people that Vary now has to employ and the teams you have to grow. Tell me a little bit about how you've grown the more intangible side of what you do, right? The the design vision, the creativity, the teams that are crafting whole office visions for your fans. How has that grown since you've transformed Very and even as you were getting to that Very transformation? Yeah, I think the beauty is having been unsuccessful in business before and learned a lot of lessons. I've been fortunate to just really hire some great people early on, you know, from a CFO and marketing and driving executives to help me scale the business. By listening to customers recognize, hey, we we do need design services. So we started to go out and hire architects and interior designers that do nothing but workplace strategy. And then operations clients said, would you come in and install the furniture for us? And we said, sure. We can. And I didn't know how to do it. So again, hiring people with expertise in these industries has now allowed us to have a much more intelligent conversation. So we're now in here talking about your culture and how to transform it through workspace design as opposed to do I need a sit stand desk? Because it's a much bigger conversation. Because if I can help you elevate your people and your culture, your business is gonna be more successful, which means ultimately we're gonna be more successful. And so having that long term vision so all of my people get that, and those are the conversations that they're having now. So for us, recruiting talent in all those verticals has been key. That's really interesting. And a lot of what I hear you saying is that you're educating your fans, You're educating people on office culture and on how they can be, you know, how you can kind of create that energy through the way that you set up your office. And I think that's really interesting. We talk all the time here just that education is the highest form of marketing. And you really kind of see that in what you're doing in that you're not just giving people a sit stand desk. You're really giving them the full experience of what an office can be. Yeah. So if we can share ideas that they're learning as CEOs or executives and we're sharing what we're learning, we share these ideas. You know, was touring the Google campus and they give away free food and sodas to all their employees, but they had a challenge. They said everybody puts on a freshman fifteen as soon as they graduate college. So they started frosting the glass over the sodas and hiding snicker bars in a drawer. So I did the same thing in our office. Now we charge, you know, we subsidize the healthier stuff a little more than the naughty stuff, but we frosted the sodas and hid the snicker and it reduced consumption. I share that idea on the tour. It's sharing culture and ideas. When you walk into the Shangri Lawn, it's got music playing in the restrooms in the lobby. I share that idea. That's not a product I sell, but clients as they're thinking about their space, like, yeah, let's do nicer restrooms. Let's have music in the restrooms. Let's have music in the lobby. Let's have a coffee bar experience in lobby. Those are ideas that we're sharing because I'm helping their business be more successful. So it's really elevating the conversation and helping clients figure out culture and people, And it's been awesome for us. And then, like, part of a rebrand, obviously, is you're reeducating people on, hey. This is the the company we're we're very now. We're not very now. So you're you're asking people to kind of change mindset a little bit. What channels are you of pursuing in order to really educate your fans and and the people out there that know you still as Veritas? How are you, you know, pursuing that education of those folks? Yeah. I think our number one thing is I've got to drive awareness for Very in all the different products and solutions that we're driving. So we're doing a full campaign. So our TV campaign starts March second. So we filmed our commercial. It's about to start running next week. So we'll start a branding campaign on the CNBCs and the Bloombergs and the all the marketing channels to drive awareness. And our fans in the markets will also get direct mail pieces because we've got to drive that awareness that we're much bigger. And we're really a workspace innovation company under the very umbrella. Great fans like Damon John and others have been out sharing the word, which has been incredible for Because again, it's one fan at a time is how I look at everything. So each customer that we've interacted with knows us and trusts us. Now that it's been, you know, and they're coming along the journey. So now I've got to drive awareness clients that we haven't done business with. It's just like every entrepreneur out there. So traditional marketing, but really word-of-mouth is my key thing. If we have a, we take care of our fans, I believe they're gonna take care of us and go on the journey with us. I think what's helpful in your case is that you've already built a lot of brand equity and a lot of trust in VeriDesk. So transitioning, excuse me, from VeriDesk to Very, it's not like you're having to reestablish a lot of trust in your brand and have people buy back in. But do you see that dynamic at all in when there is a rebrand that you have to, to a degree, reintroduce that trust that look, yeah, we're changing our name, we're kind of changing our direction as a company, but the things that made us great are still there. Are you having to communicate that? I think the good news is we this happened on Monday, so we're we're one week in. Yeah. And it's been incredible. The response has been awesome. So the fans have emailed, written LinkedIn, TikToks have been posted. Been a fun thing to see out there of the fans reacting to very like, I get it. It's so obvious. Why didn't you guys do it sooner? It was kind of a joke out there. These things take over a year to plan out to do it right. And so we said, we wanna get it right. We did the research. The fan said, yes, Very is the right brand. And so we started the whole process over a year ago and they're already reacting in a positive way to it. So now it's for us, it's sharing it with the rest of the world. So conversations like this will continue to help us drive awareness. Totally. But the immediate reaction over the last five days has been way better than I thought, and it's exceeded my expectations. I'm very optimistic that we're on the right path. Love it. Well just to end on something that is near and dear to the market scale, heart scale. As you grow not only the products and the services that you provide but your global reach. How have you approached maintaining quality and maintaining the kind of soft services, The customer service, the experience, the fact that working with various seamless and feels good. Know you exude that the good vibes and the good energy, right? How do you maintain that as you scale and as your reach becomes more spread out? And you know feel free to mention anything from you know, working with contractors or working with, with folks, to help elevate the actual, workflows, as well as just building buy in from all of the different, players that help make it happen. Yeah. You think about it. Well, we went through a process, a couple of years ago and I said, we've got to really clearly define our core values that the business is built on. And so I went through and had a consultant interview seventeen different people that I would have, some had been with me a few weeks, some ten plus years in my other business that came with me and to interview them. And really these six core values came to the top. And as we elevated our vision to creating workspaces that elevate people, having those common values and really our culture built on top of that and hiring people to those values is really the key to success. So as you think about growing the business, we've gone from no employees to over three fifty and I'm now in eight different markets with people. I ship thirty different countries on a daily basis. We've got a global footprint, but everybody we have hired understands the mission and the values that this business is built on. And having that relationship and creating lifelong fans is one of those values so they understand getting that right. So that's been a great thing. The other thing is working with great partners. So as you think about scaling a business, at first we were doing our own warehousing, at first we were trying to do our own technology platforms for e commerce. So we said we're going to work with third party logistics companies globally. We've got amazing partners with Salesforce for our ecommerce system. So it's again elevating the partners that we work with too as we scale and grow the business. So you're obviously CEO of a massively successful company. The rebrand is going awesome. Is there anything that keeps you up at night at this point? Like, yeah, I mean, anything from coronavirus to, you know, a downturn in the economy where people aren't hiring as much and office spaces aren't as full. Is there anything like that that concerns you? Yeah. Think we've I believe we're building a company that can live beyond my lifetime. That we have a shot to be one of the great brands like a Southwest, like an Apple. I believe we've got that opportunity. It will take a tremendous amount of work. We're only seven years old. So if you picture yourself at seven, what were you like? Right? And so I'm fifty now. And so I recognize, yeah, yeah. I recognize that, you know, we're early in this, but by staying focused on that. I also recognize as CEO, I've got three fifty families that are counting on the decisions I make. Ultimately, thousands of people are impacted by the decisions I make. So there are things that do as a business, but I know that we're on a mission to create something incredible. And I've built the business the same way Jack Bogle built Vanguard, way that Sam built Walmart, Jim built Costco, really built on everyday value. And so keeping costs low, benchmarking against a great company like Southwest, I mean really being smart about the business as we scale, keeping our costs staying profitable. We haven't raised money, we've been profitable since day one. So continuing that flywheel effect in the business has allowed me to reinvest the capital, get great people, and really build something that can live beyond my lifetime. And that's what I wanna do. That's awesome. Love it. Alright. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, we've been chatting with Jason McCann, CEO of Vary. Thank you for the time on the show. We really appreciate the insights and we're going to have to get you on some more shows. Oh, I'd love that. We do radio content. You come out to Varyspace and we'll do a show out We'll host you guys. All about that. On some sailing guests. Yes, please. Deal. I look forward to that. That would be awesome. Awesome. It's be great. You guys have been awesome. So thank you so much. Thank Thank you you so much. All right. And Tyler, before we toss, any cool content that is on your radar and maybe on my radar too that you're excited about here for the future market scale? Oh, that's a great question. Radio tomorrow, business casual. We're back. We took a brief hiatus but we are back with business casual Wednesdays and Fridays at nine am central so be sure to tune back in. We're trying to mix it up a little bit, add some segments, bring Taylor Bagley on maybe for some consistent content. Yes That'll be good. And we're always pushing out new original series everything from, radio shows like I Don't Care, Say Yes travel and ratified to our original video series like the install in made in America. So make sure you head to marketscale dot com slash industries and subscribe and follow along for all our great content. Absolutely. Love what he said. What I said. I'm Daniel Litwin, voice of B2B. And I'm Tyler Kern. And thank you for watching Market Scale Mornings. Oh, nice.