Hey, everyone, this is Daniel Litwin, the voice of BTB coming at you from the market scale studio. I'm joined today on the line by Katie Dorn. She's a licensed K through 12 school counselor and therapist, but she's also the co-founder of empower you. Empower you as a personalized, tech powered social emotional learning solution that's bringing mental health support to students across the country. So today we're sitting down with Katie to chat a little bit about how covid has really centered the conversation around supporting students' mental health and where Ed tech fits into this broader strategy for social, emotional student support. Katie dawran, great to have you on. How you doing? Good, thanks, dad. I'm so happy to be here. This is exciting. Yeah, it's a pleasure again to chat today. Thank you again for your time. So let's go ahead and just jump right in. What sort of long term effects do you see? The remote learning paradigm and various stressors that covid brought having on students. So, again, long term effects on students. What are your thoughts? Yeah, it's hard right now. I mean, 20, 20 was a year like none other. You know, you take a global pandemic and you add to that all the we're based in Minneapolis. So there's a lot of racial unrest, remote learning, sometimes poor students. School is the only place where they feel that unconditional, positive support that they need. And now they're trying to learn remote. There's technology issues, loneliness. So just friendships and social grief around loss milestones. You talk about graduations, proms, sports teams, activities, all for a lot of students that I'll just evaporated. And then you go to the New school year. I don't think in March anyone thought that it would go as long as it has. And so it was like, oh, certainly by January. And the page has turned to twenty, 21 and it just feels like a lot more of the same. So and empower you what we use a thermometer to, to measure what we call community stressors and community stressors of the most common things that happen to all of us. Right all of these things. I just mentioned have happened to almost all students. And if your toes are zero and your head is 10 right now, everyone has community stressors that have them walking around it, a stress and unhealthy stress level of around 8 and 1/2. So if you're here, it doesn't take much, for one thing, an assignment that you don't get at home, a parent who's struggling financially, financially, someone who's sick in your family with covid to move you to a tent where it feels like you just can't cope. And what schools are telling us. And we talk to them every single day, is that what that shows up our body's response to that? Our subconscious survival instinct is to shut down. So students are avoiding asking for help. Actually wait lists for therapists in school. Therapists are down because they're just stopping engaging with anyone, including their work, which puts them behind. And it's just a huge problem. It was a problem before this. We've been around since 2015. This has been a problem for a long time that we've been trying to solve anxiety and depression and avoidance for students. It's been exasperated like none other because of covid. So you've worked directly with students both as a counselor and therapist. So you have a lot of on the ground experience with these challenges. So when students return to school in person, how do you imagine those anxieties are going to manifest in the classroom based on what you've seen as a counselor and therapist? Well, it's funny. I also have my parent hat, so I'm the mother of seven grown children as well. So I think about more than that. I think school was supposed to be a safe place. And now it's been told it's unsafe for them to go. So I think people who have fears, OCD or anxiety about being in large groups could definitely be a trigger. So coming back to school may be really hard for students. We know this much when students are struggling and anxious, they don't just their work. They avoid coming to school. And in schools get paid by average attendance. So attendance is important also because teachers are two of my grandchildren aren't teachers. And when a student doesn't show up, then you have to teach them. That's time. So it's an expense and a burden for the school when kids don't come to school. And I think we're all really, really worried about that. We're all really worried about that. And then for those awkward, socially awkward students who already struggled with feeling left out and not belonging my coming back and having so much time, you know, there's just going to be not just a slip in math skills and English skills. I mean, I think that students are definitely not progressing. I think, what did I hear this week? That the f rate at most high schools is 40% this semester. So, I mean, your schools are struggling to teach the basics, but it's these sell soft skills that are also suffering as well. So what sort of support do you think that students need? Or really, I mean, no, the. Students need, based on all of your experience. In the space to handle these anxieties and not only a healthy, but also a long term sustainable way. 100% That's that's what emporio is designed to do. I mean, I started working on this when I was a school counselor in a school. And even I'm talking when kids were in the building. And this is all the anxiety, exasperation due to covid. You know, I had a cohort of these kids that were struggling. And I had 400 students on my caseload. I was busy doing a multitude of tasks as a school counselor that I didn't have time to give them the daily support they needed to. I wanted to most school helpers, counselors, social workers, school sex, they want to they just don't have time. So this is really designed and three things. I think it's important. That's daily. You know, I'm a therapist, too. And when I have seen adolescence or college students, they might assign homework of a skill. And they have every intention of doing it. And they leave and they come back in two weeks. And they're like, oh, I forgot. So the daily practice of making change and changing habits and the ways of thinking and practicing strategies is daily. So this is designed to be daily. It's also designed to be rooted in relationships. Every white paper, every evidence based strategy says you need to have that therapeutic relationship for students to apply it in a way that's lasting. And you said last time we had a lot of people who looked at empower you and said, are from a business standpoint, get rid of the coaching. It's too expensive. You make a lot more money if you get rid of it. And I'm like, but. We don't think it will work, and so we kept it. And we figured out how to scale it effectively and how to deliver it effectively, but I really do think that is an important part of student transformation, is that support. And then accessible having this be accessible regardless of gender, race, student support, mental health support, cell support is not something that's a privilege. It should be accessible to all students. And right now, the problems are so big, we need more efficient ways. So those are really our pillars of our program that I think that any program that's going to serve students' needs to have in order to really make the change. A lot of programs out there and solve every problem focused. Oh, you you cyberbullied. You take this little module. Oh, you have a vaping problem. Take this little module, you're feeling anxious. Take these three little things. But in order to apply it in a way that's lasting, it also needs to be over a period of time. If you look at neum, which I think is like the closest thing to what we have, which is like weight loss content with coaching, it takes it's a four month program. Ours is like 12 to 14 weeks. It needs to be over a period. It can't just be three modules here. And the kid moves on and you think they have it. It needs to be not just supportive but instructional over a period of time that they can actually make the change that's needed, that will last past the course. And that's the goal. Right resilience is not just facing the hard right now, but it's facing the next obstacle and the obstacle, because if nothing else, we know that life is going to continue to be hard. So if the success of empower you depends a lot on integrating into a broader day to day strategy for supporting mental health, how feasible do you find new solutions to be for the wide variety of situations that we see school districts in? Some are very well funded and some have a lot of resources and support for transitioning between hybrid, remote and in-person learning. There's also a lot of school districts that are incredibly underfunded, a lot of inner city school districts that are heavily overcrowded. We also have a lot of rural and low income districts with limited resources. So for these varying degrees of, I guess, financial and resource situations, how do you see these solutions meeting them where they're at? Such a good question. Our mission is to create greater access for all. And because of the kahrizak dollars, because there's title four funds, there are actually state and federal dollars for these programs. And if a school is interested in bringing this solution, that it hasn't been hard to find the money. I think what's held schools back more this year than anything has been the lift in the wait asking staff to do one more thing. And I think one of the things we've been really dedicated to is having a turnkey seamless implementation. A lot of times they we have a therapist center and do the coaching, and we really looked hard at that because it does raise the cost, but it doesn't raise the cost as much as it would be for them to train and pay an FTE person on their staff who's already. So busy that they can't do one more thing. So we're actually more economical when you really look at it all in cost and the lift is easier because all we have to do is train the referring staff of a school. Usually it's a student support team or a student assistance team that's identifying students that need this extra support. They go through a short 10 minute training, and there's a tool box where they just fill out a referral form. The school has so many intervention seats they want and we do the heavy lifting from there. So what's great is schools have been able when they can meet with us today and sign a contract tomorrow and start before students next week. So we're really able to get into districts that need the help. Rural districts are having a hard time finding in-person people and inner city districts are having a hard time with avoidance avoidance students. We we can help people. So this is expanding the conversation a little bit. But I like trying to intersect some of the broader reasons why I think we have these conversations in the first place. So if we're talking about expanding mental health access to students, I think it's always important to mention just sort of the broader infrastructure of access to health care that can be very difficult for a lot of people. So for many in this country, mental health access is just inaccessible due to health insurance being priced out and just medical services in general being too expensive. So where does empower you stand on any broader pushes for normalizing mental health as well as expanding access universally? Do you integrate any of your conversations or strategy or work on the side to intersect with the broader pushes like that? I think it's really important. We're actually talking to some local health care organizations right now about having this be a tool that they can offer in screens. I mean, that's really where it's mandated right now, that starting at age. Mental health is screened and well checks and a lot of time, what happens from the physician's group, those we're talking to is it's only 15% of student families that are given a referral to a therapist that actually can find the time. It's not just cost, insurance is one. Right, but it's also it's the time to get off work, drive them there, even in a virtual environment, just time and space. So I think we're really set up to be accessible to people who wouldn't be able to access traditional. That's part of our goal is to make something that is accessible for all. But from a financial standpoint, we are starting to talk to insurance organizations about having this be wrapped in as app for providers or through Medicaid or Medicare kind of supplemental programs as well. We're just you know, we are in the infancy of those conversations, but they're are important conversations. And we've actually just brought in a strategist to help us appeal to our local Minnesota State level funding. And I've been on the phone with legislators, with our governor, with our senators to kind of spread the word and start that. It's important. They all agree. It's just like, how so? I'm hopeful that through this. We'll get some pilots to really prove efficacy, that we can be, you know, more accessible with outcomes as effective, if not more than traditional therapy for a fraction of the cost. And if that's true, there'd be no reason that this shouldn't be a part of those programs. From a health care standpoint, I'm definitely interested in seeing how those talks advanced. So definitely keep me in the loop there. I'm interested. Wonderful so last question I've got for you, Katie. What can educators and school counselors do now at an interpersonal level to better support and guide students to the resources that they need, whether or not they have empower you at their disposal? What are some short term things people can start to do now to support those needs? Well, I think first and foremost, I actually think the number one thing is that they need to take care of themselves. We do have a self care resilience version of our course. And I think that that question is always, you know, educators and administrators and teachers and counselors are always saying, oh, this would be great for students or this would be good for my teachers or this would be good for my staff. And what I want to say to them right now is what put the oxygen mask on yourself first. This is important for you to take care of yourself, because how students learn is by what's modeled. If you're frazzled, if you're exhausted, if you're at the end of your rope, take time to incorporate these strategies into your own life first and come out with a vision for that very reason, because so much of what you do when you're stressed is revert to what you see from a social learning standpoint. So it's really important. So that's number one. And number two is, I think just the motto we live by is making each student feel seen, heard, valued and respected wherever they are. I think there's a lot of tools out there, but I think the power of these helpers and student corners are just to meet them where they're at to love them unconditionally, no matter what their behaviors are telling you. And often their behaviors don't match what they're feeling. Their behaviors can be difficult and they act like they don't care. I've yet to meet a student that wants to feel that way, that wants to be stuck in the struggle. It doesn't feel good. They just don't know how to get out. But the first step is just that unconditional, positive regard to make them feel seeing her to be valued. And then comes the tool. And I think sometimes we're so quick to fix that. The student just thinks, I think what students often hear or see, they don't think I can do it either. So I think the first step, take care of yourself and just meet the students that those would be my teachers. Love it. Katie Daun life escaper, 12, school counselor and therapist and co-founder of empower you. Thank you so much for your thoughts today on this timely topic. If folks want to find out a little bit more About Empower you and your solution or potentially get in touch to source the solution, how can they do so? This our website. There's a forum on our website to fill out. It's empower you one word about education. And sure, you can put it at the bottom, the link to this, but it's really easy. There's a forum and lots of information there. And we'll follow up with you and get you the information. Perfect all right. Katie dooring, Thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you.
